trouble

I've got into a somewhat interesting situation.. let me start by saying that I'm a Finnish citizen. My fiancée (also Finnish) is in US on a exchange student visa that is valid until end of January (including grace period). It's gonna be a bit lengthy post but I'd really appreciate any advice you could give..

Me & my fiancee both enthusiastic skiers so it was our plan for me to fly to US to join her in the end of this month (October) and stay and travel around until my tourist visa would expire. She would apply for change of status and extension of stay before her visa was to expire. (or enter Canada and reenter under VWP). I was counting on getting a tourist visa and the maximum allowed stay (6months). It seemed like some of paperwork etc but I thought that if I were to show up with all the needed papers it'd just be a formality. After all, I'm going to US with a honest intent and enough funds to support myself?

Turns out that was not the case. I applied for B2 which was refused. I haven't got my passport back in mail so I don't know what kind of official reason they gave. I've studied English in Austria for 4 years and provided them with a letter from my university that confirms that I have to spend 6 months in an English speaking country as part of my studies. With that I wanted to show them that I have a clear and a genuine reason for staying in US for more than 90 days.

Here come the problems. Apparently the consular who was handling my application thought it meant that I need to _study_ 6 months in an English speaking country and sent me an email that she recommends me to enter US on VWP or secure a study spot in US and apply for student visa as the tourist visa is "not designed for a study program as is required from your school in Austria" (as she wrote it). I sent her a detailed email back explaining her the situation and asking if she could re-review the letter from my university and the application. No answer for a week and my passport is still not here, so I sent out another email today and got the same response (no mention of her ever having had another look at the letter) where she also stated that my passport will be returned to me.

Does it make sense for me to reapply for the visa? I have no further documents to show, just the same ones, but my other documents should have been in order. I don't know if the interview went well. All I was asked was 2 questions which I answered in short. I was asked about the purpose of my trip (visiting fiancee, skiing, fulfilling part or all of the 6month stay in an English speaking country requirement set by my curriculum). Then I was asked if my university wouldn't require me to study in US, which I answered no, the requirement is simply to stay in an English speaking country for 6 months during the course of my studies. I was then told that its all what they needed and they would need time to review my application. No questions about ties to Finland/Austria or whatever but as I said I thought I had provided good enough documents for that.

I'm baffled at this point. My flight to US is in 3 weeks. What am I to do? Is there a way for me to stay in the US for more than 90 days under the VWP?

Will I ever get another 90 days of stay in USA if I go to Canada for a week or so and come back by car? From what I've read that is unprobable? Is there a possibility to enter Canada on, say, day 88 and try to enter US again a week later (by car) and be granted another 90 days of stay if I have a flight ticket to Finland dated less than 90 days away? .. because at that point I've technically overstayed VWP and I should have a tourist visa? What about if I go to Canada by car and fly back to US before 90 days are up and show the officer at the POE my flight ticket to Finland? What if I do the same but fly back when 90 days have gone?

Would there be consequences for me entering US on VWP, staying for less than 90 days, going to Canada for couple of months and flying from Canada directly to Finland? Because technically that is also overstaying VWP? When entering US on VWP I'll have to admit that my previous B2 visa application has been denied and I guess this will also impact the officers decision negatively..

Is it normal that applicants who can enter under VWP have their B2 visas easily refused?

One question about my fiancee, she's in US under exchange student visa, will she be 'nearly automatically' granted 90 days of stay under VWP if she goes to Canada before her grace period is over and comes back?


Thanks for all the advice.

Noorah101

No. The VWP visit cannot be extended.

Yes, very normal.

Rene

trouble

Errm, yes, maybe my wording was a bit unclear. Yes I know VWP itself cannot be extended. But I'd like to know if there's a way for me to get another 90 admission to US by entering Canada and coming back using one of the ways I described above.

I thought it should at least be possible by using a signatory carrier to fly to Canada and back? Or driving to Canada and flying back to US? and providing proof of flight to Europe inside the 90 days.

Noorah101

Usually a hop over the border to Canada is not enough to get you another 90-day VWP visit, no. General rule of thumb is to spend more time outside the USA than inside, so for example if you visit the USA on the VWP for 88 days....then you should spend 88+ days outside the USA before attempting another VWP visit.

Rene

Duncan Roberts

I'm just guessing but I would think that you would be asking for trouble since you have had a B2 visa application denied. What do you think the person processing you will think when they see you were rejected for a potential 6 month visa, you just spent 90 days in the US and are applying for another 90.
Your schoolboy error was to plan around a visa you didn't have. Change the dates on your ticket so you only spend 90 days total, really you should play it safe and build in a few days in case of flight issues.

Norri

I'd suggest that staying less than 90 days in the US then going to Canada and travelling directly home from there is your best option.

Why would you think being in Canada will be a VWP overstay?

Bill_S

Some people try this. The potential flaws:

1. The US might not want to give you another 90 days so soon.

2. The Canadians know the above, so they might not let you in.

Scenario #2 has happened to at least one BE poster.

ian-mstm

Canada does not participate in the VWP... so that's the end of that plan.

Ian

Norri

Surely a non Canadian can enter from Canada under the VWP.

Duncan Roberts

No, Canada is not a VWP country. They will let citizens of certain countries in without a visa and their citizens get reciprocal rights but it's not technically on the VWP. At least I think that's how it works.

Oh wait, I can't comprehend. You are right.

trouble

Thanks for all the replies so far..

Source: http://canberra.usembassy.gov/consul...s/niv/vwp.html
"Q: I am transiting through the U.S. on my way to another country. Can I use VWP?

Yes, as long as your total stay in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and adjacent islands is less than 90 days, and you meet the other VWP requirements. You can use the VWP if, for instance, you are transiting the U.S. on a journey between Australia and Europe.

However if for example you are transiting the U.S. on the way to a 6 month stay in Canada, you cannot use the VWP, as your total time in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and the adjacent islands will be over 90 days. In this case you should apply for a B-1/B-2 visitor visa, or a transit visa."

That is from an Australian US Embassy homepage and with similar wording in couple other places. I would guess that applies to the whole VWP program and not just Australians, or am I wrong? (or might this info be even false)?

By scenario 2 you mean that there might be a possibility that if I try to enter Canada during the, say, 10 last days of my 90 day stay in US I might not be granted entry? On what basis would they deny my entry? If theres a thread about this I'd be greatful if you could provide me a link.. thanks

crg

That information from Canberra is not really true. The border guards have discretion to grant a new 90 days if they feel it. The Canberra embassy is run by the DOS and they do not have the ultimate say of who can use the VWP and who cannot.. The VWP is run by DHS.

Norri

You are not transiting, you will be entering the US for 8? days then leaving to Canada and departing from there without re-entering the US.

I don't believe that is the same.

Bill_S

That's exactly what I mean. The reason for denying your entry would be that they are afraid the US won't give you another visa waiver entry, and then Canada will be stuck with you. There was a thread about this a couple of years ago. Somebody tried to get into Canada near the end of a visa waiver period, and the Canadians said no. Nobody can tell you for certain what will happen if you try this, but the risk is there.

Edited to add: here's the thread - link

Eric S

It's not that surprising that the B-2 visa was refused. Generally, consulates won't issue a B-2 if the applicant is eligible to use the VWP.

Your idea of coming to the US for 90 days and then going to Canada and coming back for an additional 90 days will not work. Going to an adjacent country like Canada or Mexico does not reset the VWP 90 day clock.

- Eric S.