benenhausen

I wont go on but i have a problem on the same subject.
I wish to visit america for the first time. We are going with my fiancee's family.
About 4 years ago one of the family (now aged 33, then aged approx 29) was arrested for affray and placed in the Police cells having never been arrested before in his life - some people he knew were being started on in the street and they engaged in the fighting but he in particular was pulling people apart and got arrested basically for being in the melee.
He was what they call 'no further actioned' the next morning after his night in the cells - CCTV showed him trying to calm the situation and pull people apart, thus they proceeded to tell him that it would seem they had 'got the wrong man'!
The Police obviously have this on file as they took his fingerprints, DNA, etc, but the simple question is will he have to apply for a visa in order to enter America?


Travelling in August 2010, hopefully!.....

meauxna

Split from the discussion thread http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8458010

benehausen, this should really be its own question, so I moved it for you.
FYI, even if he gets the item removed from the police database, it will not change the situation from the US perspective, so he will need an answer to this question very soon (especially if he wants to travel this summer).

S Folinsky

Observation: there are, indeed, "simple" questions. However, just calling a question "simple" does not make it simple. Also, a complicated question may be phrased in a simple format.

No advice given nor intended.

benenhausen

My question is neither simple or complicated, its obvious....

md95065

The question, as posed, is indeed "simple" and it has a number of possible "simple" answers such as:

"Yes"
"No"
"Maybe"
"Perhaps"
"I don't know"

Unfortunately the only one of those answers which I know to be correct is the last one ...

S Folinsky

The "obvious" question you note is also known as the "ultimate question." Did OJ Simpson kill Nicole Brown? A "simple question" in form, no doubt. The criminal prosecution took a nine-month trial and ended with an acquittal. The civil trial was much shorter, and resulted in a finding of liability.

No advice given nor intended.

benenhausen

someone must have some opinion, thoughts, past experience that may be of help?

meauxna

No, it's notoriously individual.

JAJ

State Department says "get a visa" however the law doesn't mandate that. Don't incriminate self, in other words, stance should be that the arrest was wrong. Get copies of documents (ACPO certificate etc) that show no criminal conviction.

Affray may, or may not, be a CIMT. But of course if you've not been convicted, you haven't actually committed any crime, have you?

Looking on the bright side, it's actually better to have a US tourist visa than use the visa waiver program. It's usually quite hard for VWP nationals to get a US tourist visa unless you have a good reason - and State Department say this is a good reason. Assuming strong ties to home country and an otherwise clean record, perhaps make the effort to apply for the visa, but always the risk is with the individual.

S Folinsky

Observation: I see no reference to what happened when you put in an ESTA application with a truthful answer.

No advice given nor intended.

benenhausen

Do you want to explain yourself???

lifehouse51

If the person you're talking about is eligible to apply for Visa Waiver Program to the U.S., he/she should give it a try first by answering all the questions on there truthfully, and may be approved even if he answered "Yes" to the question about prior arrests/convictions.

S Folinsky

I do not give specific advice on this forum. However, in the spirit of the Socratic method, I will sometimes make an observation -- you are free to change your line of inquiry, or draw whatever conclusions you wish from such observation.

No advice given nor intended. Really.

bjohn

The question asks a little more that just arrests/convictions. The arrest/conviction needs to be one involving a CIMT. Hence the OP's problem.

One of the more knowledgable posters once said that this question is intentionally left vague so it does not cast a too wider net.

If the question was straight forward, 25% of the British population would require a visa to holiday in the US. That's about 15 million people.

OP - you won't get a definitive yes or no answer here. You will get opinions. The only way to find out for sure is to apply for the visa. If the visa is granted you probably could have used the VWP - catch 22.

lifehouse51

Yea, there's a long discussion on Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=559272

Apparently some of the crimes that we think qualify, don't, and some that qualify were surprising as well.