ST95

Firstly I realise you get threads like this on here all the time so I thank anyone taking the time out to read and reply. I have tried searching through the various threads on here regarding affray however there are certain circumstances appertaining to my case which seem to complicate the matter for me.

In July 2008 I was convicted of affray and sentenced to 8 months imprisonment suspended in the community for two years. (Effectively I will finish the suspended sentence in July next year)
I realise there might be some contention about whether affray convictions are CIMT or not, however my gut feeling is that my conviction was a CIMT. I'll be honest it was quite a violent assault and one which I was 100% guilty for.

None of that sounds very good so far however what I might have in my favour is the following - my uncle is a U.S citizen and my mother is currently in the process of applying for an F4 Visa. Perhaps more importantly she is also engaged to an American and getting married in the summer so the likelihood is that she will be an American citizen within the next 12 months.

Given that I have [more than likely] committed a CIMT and given my mothers circumstances, I would like to know when, if at all possible, would I be able to visit the USA? Would I be elligible for a waiver of any description?

Noorah101

How old are you? Are you included on her application?

Not so. She must be a US permanent resident for 3 years first, before she can apply for US citizenship. If she moves to the USA and remains married to her USC spouse, she could become a USC in about 4 years or so.

Your mother's status in the USA has no bearing on whether YOU can visit. Your visit to the USA will be considered independently.

Rene

ST95

I am 22 and I am not included on her application

Ok, Thankyou for pointing that out.

Again thanks. I cant find the link right now but I seem to remember reading that if a parent was a US citizen then this would help my chances of being able to visit the states.

Anyhow, I guess if my case is considered independently to my mother's circumstances, and I have committed a CIMT, then there is no possible chance of gaining access to the USA for the foreseeable future? At least till my conviction is 'spent'?

bjohn

Affray is NOT assault. Affray is putting someone of reasonable firmness in fear. Affray is a public order (or disorder) offence and can be used for anything from fighting in public to waving a replica pistol in the air in public in a non agressive manor. Your case may or may not be a CIMT.

Noorah101

No, in fact, it's the opposite. If you have immediate family living in the USA, you could be perceived as having immigrant intent to remain in the USA with your family, making it more difficult to visit, not easier.

Perhaps the good news is that your mom might be able to sponsor you to immigrate, once she's in the USA. That is, if you can overcome your conviction problems. Someone more knowledgeable about that will be along soon to help you with that, I'm sure.

Rene

ian-mstm

Quite the opposite I should think. From an officer's POV, you are probably more likely to remain in the US if you have a USC parent living there.


Not so. There are waivers available. You'll probably want to talk to an immigration attorney to discuss your options. You'll also want to get hold of your court records.

Ian

Rete

Actually that will HURT your chances of visiting in the future. A parent who is living and residing in the US is a red flag that shouts immigration intent or at the very least OVERSTAY.

You will need a formal tourist visa to enter the US. This at least is my guess with your criminal history. Why not have a one time consulation with an immigration versed in US immigration issues and see where you stand with the affray conviction. Then go from there.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Actually my initial gut feeling is that affray is not a CIMT. But that is only a gut feeling. Fortunately, you are not subject to the "aggravated felony" rules on "crime of violence" which is a different ball of wax.

The issue is a complicated one.

Folinskyinla

[QUOTE=Noorah101;8108086 She must be a US permanent resident for 3 years first, before she can apply for US citizenship. If she moves to the USA and remains married to her USC spouse, she could become a USC in about 4 years or so.[/QUOTE]

Hi Rene:

Why do you assume that she will not enlist in the US Armed Forces? There will then be no wait to apply for citizenship.

Noorah101

I stand corrected.

sillyestaquestions

I am not so sure, I think it is CIMT I think its the cut off point to so called public order offences. Affray and Violent Disorder are both CIMT the closest thing in American law to affray I think would be gang assault. Affray is a public order offence that term they use when several people cause a public disorder against one or several other persons. Have u heard of the film green st about football hooligans they would all face violent disorder charges and plead guilty to the lesser charge of affray

There are 4 scales of public order offences. I cant explain in depth what each one means.

Violent Disorder
Affray
Threatening Behaviour
Pubic Order Offence

And for what is it worth the victim in this incident could easily have been killed, it has happened before in England many times.

bjohn

Perhaps you should have a read here then. It explains the general principle of public order offences.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/p...eral_Principle

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I understand what you are saying. But let do a "suppose" which is part of the Socratic method used in law school -- suppose two men are in a heated argument in a pub. Mr. X raises his fists and says "Put your fists where your mouth is." Mr. Y raises his fists in response and says "OK." Everybody around them goes "Oh, boy!" and moves away. The one exception being Mr. Z who approaches them and says "Beak it up boys." Thereupon fists drop and not a blow lands.

That is an affray. The intent [what us legal types call mens rea] does not rise to the level of CIMT.

Do note that this is the top of my head thought which leads to the "gut" feeling.

The CIMT issues are often not all that easy.

lansbury

When I was working I would have said that isn't an array that is a Section 5 Public Order offense of threatening words and behavior or a Sec 4 at most.

bjohn

I read in the 9 FAM 40.21 notes that "Riot" was NOT considered a CIMT. "Riot" being the most serious of public order offences.