In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

I would like to add to the discussion if I may? My situation is similar to that described with some differences. My wife and I are also desperate to live permanently in the USA. We also do not have any formal qualifications above GCSE/A Level. Here is the main difference in our situation. We are family of 4 currently living in the USA. We arrived 3 years ago and have another 18 months until we are due to return to the UK. It was my work that brought us here. I work for the British Government and we are here on A2 Visas. Although I like and am good at my job, staying here doing this job is not an option. My work cannot extend my tour any further and even if I were able to obtain a Green Card I could not go on to work for the US Government as you need to be a US citizen to do the line of work that I am in.

My reasons for wanting to stay are simple. Over the last 3 years we have settled here and this has become home to us. We have been back to the UK twice for short visits and it no longer feels the same. Our eldest has easily adapted to school and the US way of life. Our youngest was born here and has dual citizenship (full US birth cert, passport, SSN etc.) I already know that I cannot obtain a Green Card through my youngest child until she is at least 21 years of age. The type of work that I do is office administration (not exactly a labour shortage for this line of work). It would appear that all the odds are against us staying but I’d be grateful for any help or advice that anyone can offer.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

It doesn't look like there are any options. Read the article as follows:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Pulask...ork_in_the_USA

Do you have diplomatic immunity? If so, your child may not be a US citizen.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

You want to start your own thread rather than piggy back off someone elses thread.

Doesn't look good though on the face of it, but you don't say what the other half does, nor what kind of admin work you do, top level exec assistant at a govenment contractor outfit might not be easy to blag but might not be impossible if your willing to not work directly for the government.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

I bet you read the same article I did this year ..where citizenship was revoked in a similar case

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Can't have been revoked, was never acquired in the first place. However not everyone on "official" status has diplomatic immunity.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

I do not have diplomatic immunity as I do not work for the Embassy. My child definitely has full citizenship. As stated above she has a US passport, birth cert and social security no. I myself have a US driving licence and SSN. However, the only thing that I have which allows me to remain in the US is the A2 Visa. Once my tour is up that Visa will no longer be sponsored and I must return to the UK. Thanks for the link. I'll have a read through it later.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Even though the child has a US passport, it was likely issued by mistake and therefore can be revoked along with any claim to citizenship. A person holding an A2 visa is not subject to US law for any crimes committed... and therefore is not subject to US jurisdiction. That you don't work for the Embassy is irrelevant.

The 14th Amendment of the US Constitution states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

However, A2 visa holders are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and so are not US citizens even though born in the US.

Ian

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Not everyone holding an A2 Visa is accredited the same status. I and many others like me who do not work for the embassy, are issued with paperwork advising us of this when we first arrive. This is why we do not have diplomatic driving plates and have to obtain a US license. As for not being subject to US law for any crimes committed, I know several people out here that have had to go to court because we do not have diplomatic immunity. If as you say the passport has been issued by mistake then it’s happened to a lot of people. As you have quoted the 14th amendment “All persons born or naturalized in the United States….” Well this is my daughter. She was born here and for that reason does not require an A2 Visa. She must enter and leave the US under her US passport. Her UK passport does not require an A2 Visa. I had all of this information verified by both the US and UK embassies before my daughter was born. I even know people that have had children born in the US, while on tour, obtain a US passport for the child, return to the UK after tour finished then several years later return to the US. The US embassy still issued a new US passport. Still it does little to help my case. Bottom line is she can stay but I can’t. Thanks for the info anyway and please don’t take this response in the wrong way. I am grateful for your advice it’s just I have had my daughters status verified by both UK and US authorities so know that I’m right on this one.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Ian
Please provide a reference supporting your assertion that every A-2 visa holder automatically has diplomatic immunity ...

The following is from an unofficial source but appears genuine:
http://www.immigration-lawyer-us.com...f-record.shtml

"1) Status of person. A person born in the United States to a foreign diplomatic officer accredited to the United States, as a matter of international law, is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. That person is not a United States citizen under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. Such a person may be considered a lawful permanent resident at birth."

Automatic green card, at least ...

"Definition of foreign diplomatic officer. Foreign diplomatic officer means a person listed in the State Department Diplomatic List, also known as the Blue List. It includes ambassadors, ministers, charges d'affaires, counselors, secretaries and attaches of embassies and legations as well as members of the Delegation of the Commission of the European Communities. The term also includes individuals with comparable diplomatic status and immunities who are accredited to the United Nations or to the Organization of American States, and other individuals who are also accorded comparable diplomatic status.

(b) Child born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. A child born in the United States is born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and is a United States citizen if the parent is not a ``foreign diplomatic officer'' as defined in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. This includes, for example, a child born in the United States to one of the following foreign government officials or employees:

(1) Employees of foreign diplomatic missions whose names appear in the State Department list entitled ``Employees of Diplomatic Missions Not Printed in the Diplomatic List,'' also known as the White List; employees of foreign diplomatic missions accredited to the United Nations or the Organization of American States; or foreign diplomats accredited to other foreign states. The majority of these individuals enjoy certain diplomatic immunities, but they are not ``foreign diplomatic officers'' as defined in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. The immunities, if any, of their family members are derived from the status of the employees or diplomats.

(2) Foreign government employees with limited or no diplomatic immunity such as consular officials named on the State Department list entitled ``Foreign Consular Officers in the United States'' and their staffs."


State Department Blue List appears to be here:
http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/winter2009/index.htm

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

I have always wondered why the diplomatic list (blue list) only appears to include diplomats stationed in washington, dc and does not include other senior diplomats in charge of foreign consulates outside the DC area. It appears to me incomplete in this respect - unless I am mistaken.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

There's a separate list.
http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/fco/s...mmer/index.htm

And it appears that as a general rule, consular officers do not enjoy full diplomatic immunity.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Thanks for clarifying this JAJ. I am still a bit puzzled though - the first list does include consular officers stationed in DC, the second list includes both those consular officers stationed in DC that are already included in the first list as well as others stationed in other areas. So it seems that DC consular officers are listed in both. I would imagine that DC consular officers have equivalent immunities with consular officers in other areas.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

I see no consular officers on the first list, at least not for the United Kingdom.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Perhaps it is that DC consuls are more than just consuls and have titles such as "SECOND SECRETARY & CONSUL" or "COUNSELOR & CONSUL", which may mean they are both consular officers as well as senior diplomats.

Every person i checked on the second list stationed in DC does also appear on the first list, perhaps with a slightly different title.

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

http://faq.visapro.com/A2-Visa-FAQ3.asp#Q3. No more or less official than your source! :)

Ian

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

Thank you all for your responses. This much I do know about A2 Visas: there is more than 1 type. For example, before I was posted to the USA I had an A2 (TDY) Visa. This allowed me to visit the USA on official business as often as needed, but not stay any longer than 3 months at a time (on official business). When I was posted here long term I was issued a different A2 Visa which did not have the TDY annotation. Ian, I think you may be correct when referring to those in possession of A2 Diplomatic Visa. My A2 Visa however, is not diplomatic. I am classed as “Other Government Depts” As the notes on your link read, “the above rules are subject to a host of exceptions….” I am one of these exceptions. Anyway returning to the original problem, that is, me remaining legally in the US. It does not look like an option at this point in time. I think my only chance will be to return to the UK. Then after another couple of years apply for another US posting. By this point my children will both be of full time school age and my wife can look for work with a US company. She then has 3-4 years to convince them that she’s worth keeping and to sponsor her for a Green Card. A long shot, but what have I got to loose?

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

But wrong, nevertheless. The link I shared is part of the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations. If you still don't believe me, try reading,

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.2.5.3&idno=8

Section 1103.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

To the OP. Have you considered an E-2 investor Visa ? You could purchase a franchise, or other ongoing business (even on credit, as long as it is not secured by the investment itself, so say, secured with Home Equity or Personal Line of Credit, possibly complimented by savings funds, family loans, etc)

With a good lawyer and $50,000-$100,000 minimum depending on business type, others have pulled it off. It is NOT the norm for such a "small" investment to be successful at an E-2, but it's not unheard off either.


E-2 is not a permanent solution, but it is indefinitely renewable. With your child's great health and long life, you only need to pull off the legal status for the next 16-20 years, and when he/she turns 21, he can petition you for full permanent residency (if the law still allows is then, but that's a long time from now.).


You asked for a possible legal way to stick around, and this is one I know you might just be able to pull off

Re: Desperate to live in USA
 

No worries... this has been an education! :)

Ian

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

Interesting idea. I'll look into it. Thanks these are the sort of suggestions I'm looking for.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

Why pitch low? The usually quoted low is 200k or more.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

So help yourself and give the yes answers from here. You'll notice the E2 is listed as "Do you have at least $200,000 in cash and an entrepreneurial spirit?".

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

He said he wasn't rich...

Maybe times have changed, but my Dad's original E-2 was for $125K 6 years ago. In Houston, around that time, there was a guy with a taco stand that applied with $40K and made it on appeal.

Like I said, not typical, just unlikely but still possible.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

I think the 6 years ago is significant.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

yup, pretty much....unless perhaps it is in an area in need of development and a massive dump, or a business that he saves from going under.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

Would it be possible to obtain an E2 Visa is the following situation? Purchase a house which will act as your home and business premises. Say for example, you purchase a house at a cost of $300,000.00 then run your business from the home. Over the course of 2 years you then employ 1 or 2 US citizens to work for you.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

LOL ..No ....

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

Not quite. I am not an expert, but the next step would be to consult with a lawyer that has done several of these succesfully, so you can inquire about businesses he has been succesful within your investment amount range to give you an idea of whether you truly want to pursue this uphill option.

This is the little I remember: The investment must be considered at risk, (Ongoing business investment) and not a passive investment, specifically, I remember rental property a no-no, as it is considered a passive investment. In addition to the investment being substantial, The investment must also be comparable to the cost to start up a similar businesses to be considered sufficient. (I guess you could pull off a quick lube place on $100K, since that's a reasonable cost for one, but not an Automobile Manufacturing Company, or a Satellite Launching company, as those generally need more capital than $100K)

My dad pulled it off with a Self Service Coin Operated Car Wash. It's a cash business with no accounts receivables, so that takes that surprise away, and, the monthly fixed costs are very low. If it's a crappy month due to rain, electric and water bill are low. Since he doesn't have a loan against it, and the money would have been in the bank otherwise, he is VERY happy with his selection.

We looked into several other businesses we thought we might be able to puull off with E-2, including liquor stores, gas stations, food, Tire Shops, Auto Repair Shops, and we even looked at a Washateria.

My dad was not too happy with their high fixed recurring costs, since most all these operate on rental property, and are heavily dependent on labor, so a few bad months will kill you, and there's nothing to show for it. (some businesses selling for as low as $50K had Payroll+rent at $80K and up)

Since you have a long time to make a decision, consider what business type you would feel comfortable running, and what level of risk you are comfortable with. We felt his business choice was very low risk. The ROI is not amazing at all, but he is very happy, and is not "indentured" to the place as with other businesses...he can leave someone in charge, and be absent for a week or two without fear. Not many small businesses allow for this.


Good Luck on your search. If you have $300K available, you should have an excellent chance at an E-2.

(Remember, I'm not even a fake lawyer on the radio-much less a real one, so check everything I say with your competent, experienced E-2 Lawyer. My knowledge is first hand from my Dad's experience, but thus very limited - in statistics they would say n=1; I only have the one case to go on from 6 years ago)

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

need to employ or save 10 jobs though...possibly less in a ghetto...house can't be part of the business as it has to be a business investment.

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

Thatsthe EB-5 ..your getting confused

Re: In A-2 status; how to stay in the US?
 

fair enough, doesn't take much at the moment :D