SultanOfSwing

Even London's numbers will be low compared to the US. That might just be the only place approaching meaningful numbers of gun related incidents.

I don't know about rife, but you're going to see more crims with knives than with guns in the UK.

Sally Redux

Oh god same old cliches I see, we're all getting stabbed.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...level-33-years

SultanOfSwing

No, I only used it as an example of the most extreme weapon-related situation the average British policeman may have to face. Wasn't trying to imply anything else other than you'd see a knife before you'd see a gun.

Most of the time it's just mouthy chavs armed with cornettos, isn't it?

Sally Redux

No, sorry. It was a response to the quote in your post about knife crime being 'rife'.

Cornettos

SultanOfSwing

Aha. I was rather unclear, myself though. I tend to do that.

kimilseung

That may be what leads so many American police to shoot first, or to protect themselves from non-armed individuals. Guns against guns seems fine enough. Guns against knives and fists not so much.

SultanOfSwing

Kind of a Pavlovian response, almost

kimilseung

Another schools shooting
Police: Two dead in shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck High School | The Today File | Seattle Times

Hotscot

You made me think of a Pavlova Cake there....

SultanOfSwing

Now I'm thinking of one.

WTF America - no Pavlovas.

Pulaski

Must be a slow news day. A school shooting in NC a couple of weeks ago didn't seem to create even a ripple in the national news coverage.

Anian

Pro-gun people always say it is too soon to talk about the problems that cause school shootings, but they happen on a more than weekly basis now.

Today's one is far too close to where I live for comfort! I pass that school at least once a week.

Sally Redux

Possibly because the problems that cause school shootings are guns.

lansbury

In the time I spent on the street in uniform (10 years) I face three possible firearms.

1) Did a traffic stop on a Morris Minor on the North Circular Road and as I was walking up to the drivers door a gun was pointed out the drivers window at me. If I had been armed I would have used it.

I had failed to notice said Morris was a 2 door variety and a kid in the back seat pointed a toy gun out the window. I realized this at the point I put my left hand on the gun and pushed it away from me. But not before my right fist rearranged the driver nose over his face.

2) Stopped a guy decamping from a burglary/drug deal where a gun had been seen. Guy had a hand in his pocket. He started to take his hand out of his pocket just as my armed back up got there. I heard the very loud shout "Armed police DO NOT take your hand out of your pocket". At which point the very quiet street was filled with people coming out of their houses to see what was going on. Suspect turned and ran and we ran after him. Arrested without any injury.

3) Responded to a bank hold up alarm. 99% of the time they get triggered by accident. Arrived at bank and just as I was walking around the front of the patrol car, robber comes out and points gun at me. Totally convinced if I had been armed he would have shot me. Instead he ran, I chased and disarmed him.

When I was in The Branch posted to Heathrow all the uniformed officers from Heathrow police station were armed 24/7. I used to watch for peoples reaction when they walked by and most people didn't bat an eye lid.

There is one huge disadvantage to carrying a gun, it can be taken from you. You can end up having to use it to defend against it being taken. That dictates how you police. Never used my CS spray, did use my baton on several occasions, otherwise dealt with things by tact and good humour or use of good self defense techniques. If that failed a swift kick in the nuts usually sufficed.

My son is a police officer in West Yorkshire. I think he was used his CS spray a few times. With all this health and safety officers are not expected to get injured. In my day you had to be able to take a punch and land several. This day and age you would get a complaint if you policed the way we did.

Guns are a tool to be used when needed, and not for routine patrol duties. My recollection of recent shootings of police officers is that they have all been caught cold, the way I was at the bank. Carrying wouldn't have saved them. The old training school instruction from 1976 still stands good. If faced with a firearm do as they tell you, don't do anything stupid. A live witness is more use than a dead hero.

Also in the UK use of a firearm by a police officer is more heavily scrutinized than in the US, and the rules for use considerably more restrictive. There was a recent shooting in our city where the officers were cleared by a grand jury, and rightly so by US standards. In the UK they would have stood trial for murder.

SultanOfSwing

Thanks for that. Interesting, too. It seems to suggest that the current system is fine. Maybe keep enough firearm trained officers on each shift and a lockup of weapons at the station should the need arise, but otherwise just leave things the way they are.

I am just so used to seeing armed policemen out and about (NI and here in the US) I suppose I'm desensitized to it. I was way off in my estimation on that one.