dakota44

Scares the crap out of you, doesn't it. So many guns brought in from surrounding states, so much poverty and other issues. Pretty much the entire city is an inner city situation. You don't have to stray far to get in trouble.

Leslie

They have the same crime rates as South Africa!



Disclaimer: I have no idea if that's true. I just made it up right now but it sounds like something that could be true.

dakota44

Ahem. Democrat governed states. You will notice from the list of the most dangerous states, most are Republican governed states. Just goes to show you can't trust a Republican with a gun. I cite Dick Cheney as proof.

Bob

It's all those easy states neighbouring ain't it...it's not like you have border patrols on each state doing a check...

chartreuse

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw. It said "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy".

cindyabs

More than likely, at least in the rural areas. I grew up with them and learned to shoot, but my Dad only had rifles, no hand guns.

The two counties that I lived in, in NH and VT are the poorest in those respective states.

dakota44

As for strict interpretation of the Constitution, which is where the abuse of The right to bear arms comes from in terms of every yahoo having the right to carry (except that it clearly refers to militias) Thomas Jefferson had this to say about the Constitution. It is also relevant in an era when some in the political arena would roll back the gains of many by repealing certain amendments to suit their strict interpretation attitude.

Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched; who ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. Let us follow no such examples, nor weakly believe that one generation is not as capable as another of taking care of itself, and of ordering its own affairs. Each generation is as independent as the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before.

cindyabs

This was the only statewide newspaper in NH when I was growing up. Liberal it was NOT!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Union_Leader

VT has the Burlington Free Press as it's most widely circulated paper, it is based in a city which is the most affluent in the state.

chartreuse

There are loads of studies, each demonstrating one side or another of the argument. This is the definitive meta-study, from the National Academies.

dakota44

Study, shmuddy. Not everything needs to be studied by someone to form a reasonable conclusion. And too many studies are funded by parties with a vested interest. Statistics show that states with fewer gun controls, have higher murder rates and violent crime rates than states with stricter controls. Enough proof for me. One State could be an aberration, but not that sheer number of them.

chartreuse

Isn't that precisely the "Don't complicate matters with facts" attitude that you accuse pro-firearm folks of having?

dakota44

Studies are not always worth the paper they are printed on. Fact, those states have higher homicide rates, higher crime rates, higher rates of gun violence. If we want to go looking for other reasons, poverty, education, men with two inch dicks, women with excessive camel toe or a shortage of Thai massage parlors in order to justify the crime rate, go ahead. But the reality is that the guns are available and the gun related crime rates are what they are because guns are readily available. Finding excuses for a reality gets a bit ridiculous after a while. It's the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument all over again. For many, the gun is the motivator. Without it, they might never commit the crime.

chartreuse

Do what now?

dakota44

Maybe I should have said that the gun was their backbone to do the crime. Do you not think that if some yahoo had to stick up a liquor store or 7/11 without a gun that he might think twice? Not all, for sure, but some no doubt. Do you not think that it is possible that some of those warped individuals who wiped out their families might have found it less possible to do if they couldn't easily shoot them? Not something that can be quantified, but it stands to reason that it is possible. Much the same as some dudes get aggressive and irresponsible behind the wheel of a fast car, a gun can also be that penis extension for some. That extra misplaced courage.

I want to be sure that we understand ourselves here. My biggest bone of contention is with liberal carry laws. Reasonable gun ownership does not bother me so much. Liberal carry laws do. It ain't the wild west anymore. Do we need to repeat it?

dakota44

Anyway, it has been nice to debate such a divisive issue without hostility and name calling, although I do recall something about you being a crazy as bat shit cat lady.