What To Do?

Old Jul 12th 2014, 6:52 pm
  #16  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
sir_eccles's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
sir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond reputesir_eccles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by Michael
I'm not in it for the money and if I am the patient holder, it will be even more difficult to attract some university or company to invest time/money in the research and development since their potential for profit will be reduced. Also I hate paperwork unless it is of some use to someone to acquire information.
But they are in it for the money and won't invest their time unless they know protection is in place. If you aren't bothered by money you can then assign the patent to them for a nominal sum. It is just property that can be bought and sold.
sir_eccles is offline  
Old Jul 12th 2014, 7:10 pm
  #17  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bluegrass Lass's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: My Old KY Home!
Posts: 6,498
Bluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond reputeBluegrass Lass has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

What about contacting some biomedical engineers? They are sort of the cross between medical professionals and engineers.
Bluegrass Lass is offline  
Old Jul 12th 2014, 7:31 pm
  #18  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
But they are in it for the money and won't invest their time unless they know protection is in place. If you aren't bothered by money you can then assign the patent to them for a nominal sum. It is just property that can be bought and sold.
Corporations are on the bottom of my list. Universities get grants so they are at the top of my list. For a university there isn't any risk just like their stem cell research that many universities are performing since it is all paid for by grants. If they get lucky and figure it out, they can patent it.

The same is true with this. If they believe in what I am saying and they can verify it, they can patent it. If they are the first to show interest, I'll stop distributing the document.

If I didn't do it that way, then I'd have to either get non disclosure agreements before sending them the document making it even more difficult to get their attention or put in the effort of patenting it myself. And if I patented it myself, I'd then play hardball.

So if I patent it and play hardball, then there will likely even be less interest.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 12th 2014, 7:51 pm
  #19  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by Bluegrass Lass
What about contacting some biomedical engineers? They are sort of the cross between medical professionals and engineers.
That is another option but I suspect I would have similar problems in that I'd somehow have to figure out a way to get in contact with someone that that understands sound and hearing. Also I'm not sure I would feel anymore comfortable with a Biomedical Engineering company than a medical device company other than it may possibly be easier to find the right talent. However I suspect there may also be biomedical engineers doing research at universities and since that is my preference, it's a matter of finding those people and sending them the document.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 12th 2014, 8:00 pm
  #20  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by AdobePinon
You really can't sell an idea with a 40-page document. You may have more luck with a 1 to 2 page white paper and a simple quad chart. People don't want to read more than that to start. If that gets their attention, you may be asked for something longer, but don't be surprised if it's less than a dozen pages. The technical details can often be the least important part.

It's a little like a job hunt in that you really want that first document to get you a chance to talk directly with someone. More talking and less writing is usually a good thing.
The first time I tried to write the document, I thought it would be best if I wrote a summary of one line bullets at the beginning to get their attention. Four pages later I'm still writing bullets. I then decided that bullets that don't fit together, aren't clear, and don't tell a story is not the way to go.

I made that decision since when I read the bullets, I wouldn't have been interested in the project.

When I produced the final document and reread it many times, I was satisfied that it was clear, concise, and told a story that someone with knowledge in the field would understand.

Last edited by Michael; Jul 12th 2014 at 8:06 pm.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 12th 2014, 8:17 pm
  #21  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

When I wrote the document, I told them how to raise the loudness discomfort level (LDL) to normal very early in the document with all the things that happen while raising the LDL. Even if they only have a very basic understanding about hearing, that should have peaked their interest because they should understand the consequences of a low LDL.

I assumed everybody that is doing research in hearing must know that a low LDL means the person will hear sounds louder. Therefore if the LDL is supposed to be 100 DB at 750 Hz and it is 70 DB instead, than a 70 DB sound at 750 Hz will sound like 100 DB even without any other problems. So the document start off very easy.

However if prior to that they didn't understand what each of the disorders were, then they'd likely lose interest.

Last edited by Michael; Jul 12th 2014 at 8:22 pm.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 13th 2014, 3:28 am
  #22  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Now I'll get into one of the many complex things that occur with hearing disorders. If you read and understood my post about harmonics and timbre, you'll likely be able to follow this post.

I suspect every doctor in the medical profession knows about the inner and outer hair cells since it is just a part of the anatomy. The concept is pretty easy where the inner hair cells receive sounds and those sounds are passed to the outer hair cells for amplification. Only mammals have outer hair cells so therefore other animals hear the world as it is which is very quiet. In order for humans to develop a language between them, only having inner hair cells wouldn't allow that to occur because the world's sounds are too soft and not correctly separated to allow humans to develop a language for communicating. The outer hair cells change how sounds are perceived by the brain and produces the amplification characteristics of the ears.

Researchers could see that the amplification characteristics of the ears were not correct for recruitment. Researchers plotted equal loudness contour at all frequencies below 1,000 Hz and discovered that the plots were not parallel to each other. They were V shaped. That means the timbre in one ear was different than the timbre in the other ear. According to the plot, an adult male's voice should sound low pitched in one ear and high pitched in the other ear and apparently they terminated their research without asking the test subjects if they heard high pitched complex sounds in one ear and low pitched complex sounds in the other ear but just assumed that was occurring.

However according to my research, a person with recruitment always hears complex sounds the same in both ears. Not necessarily the same loudness but the same ratio between ears or in other words, if one frequency in the timbre is 4x as loud as the same frequency in the other ear, then all other frequencies in the timbre must also be 4x louder than the other ear. I also noticed the same V shaped plot was occurring for hyperacusis and the person was also hearing complex sounds the same with both ears.

That told me that what is being plotted with pure tones is not what the brain is perceiving for complex sounds. It appears that if the brain perceived a high pitched complex sounds in one ear and a low pitched complex sounds in the other ear, the brain would get extremely confused not knowing if it was hearing one voice or two voices. Therefore what appears to be happening is that when the brain receives a complex sound and thinks it is from the same voice but one is high pitched and the other is low pitched, it immediately notifies the ears to make them the same and instructs the ears how to do that. For hyperacusis, that usually works pretty well when the person is stable but if he goes where there are a bunch of people talking, the brains voice recognition system starts to go to hell instructing the ears to do the wrong thing to align the ears since now the brain is hearing many people talking and can't distinguish which sounds go together. While the person is in the group, the brain is over taxing itself trying to keep both ears sounding the same.

The next morning the person awakes and has a severe case of hyperacusis where certain short sharp complex sounds are too loud (possibly a door being shut, a cup being placed on a counter, the solenoid in an appliance being engaged, or any other sound that produces high amplitude timbre). It appears that the brain became extremely confused and is now reacting incorrectly when it instructs the ears as to how to align the amplification characteristic of ears for short sharp complex sounds.

The most difficult thing to understand is that if one ear is plugged, the loud sounds will not disappear when a person is unstable.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 13th 2014, 11:43 pm
  #23  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

ISO 226:2003

See the first attachment. In the 1930s, researchers wanted to determine how people with good average hearing perceived sounds at different loudness levels and frequencies and put test subjects in a quiet room and generated pure tone sounds at different DB levels and asked the test subjects to indicate when the sound at one frequency was the same loudness as another frequency. They performed the test at the "Threshold" level (the sound level where a person with good average hearing will hear the quietest sounds) to Phon 100 (loud sounds).They noticed that hearing drops off below about 800 Hz and peaks at about 3,000 Hz and then starts to drop off above that. At the "Threshold" level, they had to generate about a 73 DB sound before the test subjects heard any sound but at 1,000 Hz, only a 3 DB sound was required. They also noticed that at different sound levels (Phons), the plots were not exactly the same as other Phon levels. They also couldn't generate pure tone plots at and above 100 DB for frequencies above 1,000 Hz without causing discomfort to the test subjects but could generate pure tone sounds at and above 130 DB at 30 Hz without incurring any discomfort to the test subjects.

Testing was again done in the 1950s and the first ISO standard was created (the blue plot on the chart). In 2003, testing was again done and ISO 226:2003 was created as the standard for people with good hearing. This ISO standard is used to make testing equipment for audiologists so that if a person has average good hearing, there will be a flat line at DB 0 for all frequencies. This standard is also used by manufacturers of headphones, speakers, and other audio equipment to develop products that responded to sounds as the manufacturers desires.

The Ear

The ear has both inner hair cells and outer hair cells. The inner hair cells are used to receive the sound which it passes to the outer hair cells for application. The outer hair cells do not linearly amplify the sounds passed to it but does non linear amplification to create better separation and to amplify sound so that humans hear what they desire to hear and not hear undesirable sounds. Only mammals have outer hair cells so other animals hear sounds as they really occur in the world which are very soft sounds. Without the outer hair cells, man would not have been able to develop a language to communicate with since real world sounds are too soft and separation between different sound levels are not the desired way.

The ISO graph indicates how outer hair cells are amplifying sounds or the amplification characteristics of the ear for a person with good average hearing.

Sound Levels and Discomfort

The second attachment indicates different DB sound levels made by different objects. From the attachments, you might assume that very loud sounds would cause more discomfort then softer sounds since the "Threshold of Discomfort" is 120 DB and the "Threshold of Pain" is 130 DB. However those discomfort levels are at different DB levels depending on the frequency. From the ISO chart, you can see that researchers could plot sounds as high as 130 DB at 30 Hz but couldn't even plot 100 DB sounds above 1,000 Hz since there was too much discomfort for test subjects.

When a person with a hearing disorder indicates that he/she has a "Loudness Discomfort Level" of 70 DB, that is probably at 750 Hz. Their loudness discomfort level below that frequency could be much higher and above that frequency, much lower. A person with a loudness discomfort level of 70 DB at 750 Hz would be low since normal is about 100 DB. That means at 750 Hz, that person perceives 70 DB sounds at about 100 DB. Therefore if that person hear bells or other high pitched complex sounds that are 85 or 90 DB, that sound may be significantly shooting through the "Threshold of Pain" causing the brain to become traumatized causing that person to destabilize, the amplification characteristics of the outer hair cells to move, the loudness discomfort level to drop further, and all kind of side effects since the ear is barely functioning. However the same person may hear a 95 DB motorcycle engine and the sound will probably not bother him/her in any way.

The loudness discomfort level is used to test whether a person's hearing may be abnormal. It is used by incrementing pure tone DB levels until the person feels a very minor shock to the brain. Although pure tones define where the brain is shocked for a specific frequency, a person can hear the same frequency at the same DB level in a complex sound and the brain probably won't be shocked.

Nature's Ingenious Design but Not Necessarily for the Modern World

At first glance, it may appear that nature may not have done a very good job designing the ear but ear evolved for sounds produced by nature. Nature has many low frequency sounds that would likely drive a person mad if he/she heard them constantly so therefore as the ear evolved, the drop off in hearing evolved so that human beings wouldn't hear those sounds. The lower frequency outer hair cells have different amplification characteristics than the upper frequencies so that good separation can be perceived for important noises. Nature didn't evolve as much for the higher frequencies since nature seldom produced those sounds at loud levels. The human voice, birds, and other animals produces sounds in those frequencies but not at a very loud level.

However man has made all kinds of machines and devices that produce sounds that were never intended for the ear. Fortunately the ear handles most of them very well. For instance, all motors produce loud sounds below 60 Hz which we refer to as vibrations. With the drop of in hearing, we normally don't hear the vibrations. A heat pump could be producing 90 DB sounds at 30 Hz but since ear can't hear anything at 30 Hz until the sound level reaches about 73 DB and a typical quiet home has 20-30 DB background noise to block out the other noise produced by the heat pump, we don't hear the vibrations.

A person with good average hearing may possibly be able tolerate 140 DB jet engine without significant problems since most of the frequencies are low but a 140 DB church bell may cause the person to go deaf. Also even if a person doesn't go to rock concerts or is not normally around a noisy environment, if that person has bad genes for hearing, the outer hair cells could be damaged just from every day noises such as bells, sirens, horns, alarm clocks, fire alarms, and many other high frequency sounds since those sounds are not part of nature and therefore it was not part of evolution since it was not a problem.

A jet engine produces very loud infrasounds (frequencies below 30 Hz) that can reach more than 130 DB in the cabin of an airplane. Those sounds can make a cabin swing back and forth if the cabin of the airplane had a certain length so designers of airplanes make sure the cabin length is not certain lengths so that the swing won't occur. Even though humans can't hear those sounds, some believe that they can cause illnesses and therefore the housing around the jet engines are coated with lead since only lead can effectively attenuate infrasounds. Therefore infrasounds in an airplane cabin is likely to be approximately 100 DB. Very loud infrasounds may be in your home as a plane passes over since very little will attenuate the sound other than very long distances. Sonar (normally about 83 Hz to 200 Hz) is used when in water because high powered radar (high frequencies) have a problem traveling through water. Since Sonar is used in water, you can imagine how difficult it would be to block significantly lower frequencies from traveling into everyone's home.
Attached Thumbnails What To Do?-iso226.png   What To Do?-e1b7211d3c.jpg  
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 12:56 am
  #24  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

The Clue to Curing /Treating Most Hearing Disorders

If you have been able to follow this thread, you might be able to understand how hearing disorders can be cured/treated after reading this post.

If a person has average good hearing, the frequencies below 1,000 Hz between ears will align. If a person has a 40 DB hearing loss at 750 Hz in one ear and no loss at 750 Hz in another ear and doesn't have a hearing disorder, all frequencies below 750 Hz will also have a 40 DB loss at the louder sounds in the ear that that has a 40 DB hearing loss at 750 Hz.

The hardest thing for me to believe is 750 Hz controls how hearing aligns below 750 Hz and by nature doing it that way, nature keeps the timbre aligned in the ears. How it is done, I'm not sure but it is possible that they way the outer hair cell bundle is wrapped, the 750 Hz has sort of a electrical short to the lower frequencies making them follow the leader.

For hyperacusis, 750 Hz "lost control" of the frequencies below 750 Hz and for recruitment, 750 Hz is "in control" but the 750 Hz amplification characteristics are incorrect at 750 Hz in one ear (the ears are incorrectly balanced).

If a person has a 90 DB hearing loss at 750 Hz in both ears and doesn't have a hearing disorder, he will be deaf since everything below 750 Hz will also record a 90 DB hearing loss. However it may be that there isn't any damage or less than 90 DB to the hair cells below 750 Hz. Therefore it may be possible to induce the hyperacusis disorder so that 750 Hz will not be in control of the lower frequencies. Although inducing hyperacusis may seem bad, all the loud sounds that hyperacusis produces are usually caused by frequencies around 750 Hz and higher and with those hair cells damaged, the loud noises of hyperacusis probably shouldn't happen. This may possibly allow a deaf person to hear the low frequency sounds but he/she would have extreme difficulty understand language.

In the ears there are all kinds of locks plus a balance. There are locks that occur when the loudness discomfort level is raised to normal. There are locks that associate 750 Hz to the frequencies below it. The ears can be unbalanced, partially balanced, or fully balanced and when the balance changes from one balance to the another, it can be locked into place.

Therefore it is possible that there is a way to raise the loudness discomfort level back to normal and lock it in and then convert hyperacusis to some form of recruitment by setting the locks of the lower frequencies that follow 750 Hz and then balance the ears and lock them in. As long as the disorder is a derivative of hyperacusis, the procedure is the same. Even tinnitus is likely just a frequency that is unlocked caused by a drop in the loudness discomfort level and the hair cell for that frequency is amplifying too much and it pickups up background sounds that we normally don't hear so the procedure should also work to cure/treat tinnitus since tinnitus is also common for people with other disorders but seldom recruitment.

I suspect when lock in occurs when the lower frequencies aligned, everything is locked in and hearing never moves again since everything is aligned. However nature appears to have a mechanism to compensate for hearing at 750 Hz where were the lower frequencies move in comparison to what is indicated by a pure tone hearing test. So a pure tone hearing test may not indicate perfect alignment but 750 Hz will align the lower frequencies when complex sounds are heard. However 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 years later or even possibly the next week, nature recognizes that hearing loss has occurred and when something happens, the lower frequencies will lock into place and the alignment will now be perfect when testing with a pure tone test and the lower frequencies will no longer move.

The only major thing missing from your knowledge is how to cause all those movements and locks to occur in order to cure/treat hearing disorders.

Last edited by Michael; Jul 14th 2014 at 1:18 am.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 7:01 am
  #25  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

It is claimed that hyperacusis can be caused by the following.

The most common cause of hyperacusis is overexposure to excessively high decibel levels (or sound pressure levels)

but can also be caused by

Adverse drug reaction
Bell's palsy
Chronic ear infections
Depression
Developmental coordination disorder
Ear irrigation
Facial nerve dysfunction (to stapedius)
Head injury
Lyme disease
MAO inhibitor discontinuation syndrome
Migraine
Ménière's disease
Noise-induced hearing loss
Posttraumatic stress disorder
Severe head trauma
Superior canal dehiscence syndrome (SCDS)
Surgery
Tay–Sachs disease
Temporomandibular joint disorder (TMJ)* A vestibular disorder
Tension myositis syndrome
Williams syndrome
Sensory Processing Disorder
Autism Spectrum disorder


There is also one major cause that they missed.

I have my doubts about a few of them especially migraines since I suspect that the migraines were caused by hyperacusis but since the hyperacusis symptoms weren't there, they assumed that migraines cause the hyperacusis. Hyperacusis has a tendency to get worse once a person has it. It becomes much easier to destabilize once a person has hyperacusis and every time a person destabilizes, the condition normally gets worse and stabilization takes longer.

Hearing Fatigue and Ear Fatigue are not officially a medical disorder but I suspect that may people develop Hearing Fatigue or Ear Fatigue going to rock concerts or listening to loud music with headphones instead of hyperacusis. However they stabilize very quickly within a couple days rest and many times they only have problems when they again go to rock concerts or listen to loud music using headphones. Sometimes this can continue for years and then it develops into full fledged hyperacusis. Others that are more cautious, may live out their life without ever developing hyperacusis.

Hyperacusis can either be mild or severe and for some people will never get severe while others are destined to be severe since certain characteristics about a person's ears will make it severe.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 3:48 pm
  #26  
BE Enthusiast
 
morayeel's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 360
morayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond reputemorayeel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

My nephew is a materials engineer PH.D at Cornell in New York. Would that be of use. I could contact him and maybe you could send your paperwork to him? He is always looking for new ideas
morayeel is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 3:54 pm
  #27  
WTF?
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,352
Leslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

I think you seriously underestimate how much research, both from the engineering and physiological approach, has already been done, and continues to be done, on tinnitus.

If you think you can cure tinnitus then why don't you just invent something and get rich? There's a huge market demand for the cure. Otherwise, you're just reinventing the wheel.
Leslie is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 4:42 pm
  #28  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by morayeel
My nephew is a materials engineer PH.D at Cornell in New York. Would that be of use. I could contact him and maybe you could send your paperwork to him? He is always looking for new ideas
Thanks

That might work but could you ask him to read this thread first. If he thinks this might be in his league or he thinks he can find someone who can possibly understand the thread and have them read it and if they think there might be some possibility that I'm not a nut job, then have him PM me and I'll send the document to him. I'm trying not to send the document to too many people since I'm concerned that it will get put on the internet and I'll likely be sued. I might remove that part anyway since once they understand the concept, they should be able to figure out why a certain disorder most likely occurs but it does leave a big void as to why it occurs.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 7:06 pm
  #29  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

Originally Posted by Leslie
I think you seriously underestimate how much research, both from the engineering and physiological approach, has already been done, and continues to be done, on tinnitus.
There has been enormous research for the last 100 years but very little has been discovered that can treat any of these disorders. There has been a lot of medical research procedures performed such as attaching electrodes to the outer hair cells of lab animals. There has been a large number of studies. Most of the advances in hearing has to do with infections and surgery including cochlear implants.

I spent months scanning the internet looking for anything that might help me understands any of these disorders but all there was were theories that were based on assumptions that would be ridiculed in science since there was no foundation for that assumption and trials that were so basic, they didn't tell me anything.

For instance, the ISO graph was taken with the test subjects listening with both ears at the same time. One of the things I wanted to find out was what would the plot look like if test subjects listened with one ear at a time and I couldn't find anything about that not even for people with good average hearing. I was not only interested in people with good average hearing but was especially interested in people with hearing loss. This was during the early stage of the case study and I desperately needed that information since I was developing a theory and a person should have some facts to backup a theory and since my developing theory was the core basis of the theory (the assumption), if I'm wrong about what I think should be occurring, then my whole theory will be wrong.

I pondered what to do. Do I just assume that I am correct and possibly get directed in a totally wrong direction or do I somehow try to get that information. SJSU is across the street from where I live and in downtown San Jose, I could probably find some elderly homeless people for the study. Ten SJSU students would probably be enough of a sample for people with good average hearing but I didn't know how many elderly people that I would need to find that had some hearing loss at 1,000 Hz. Would I need to find a 100 to get 10? Eventually I decided that it was going to be very difficult, possibly dangerous, and of course it will cost me money (that was my least concern). So I took a chance and hoped that my assumptions were correct because if they weren't, I was just spinning my wheels. However eventually I would have to prove that my assumption was correct. In fact that is exactly what happened, the assumption was proved.

Maybe you don't understand what I mean when I refer to "one case study" and that may be a wrong term since the case study included only one individual as a test subject. I'm not talking about some theory that I dreamed up but all the procedures have been proven to work and the theory is based on the results of each of those procedures. In other words, I saw what happened when an individual's loudness discomfort level was raised to normal and locked in and all the peculiarities that occurred.

If you think you can cure tinnitus then why don't you just invent something and get rich? There's a huge market demand for the cure. Otherwise, you're just reinventing the wheel.
If you would have read the complete thread, you would know why. But to elaborate, if I was in my 20s, 30s, or even 40s that is what I'd do but it would take a lot of venture capital to hire medical professionals to run trial, build equipment (may not be required until after the trials but may make the trials more dangerous if the medical professionals are not real careful), and then get the whole operation going including centers to treat people. I just don't have the energy and possibly the time to do that at my age.

I've also considered getting my sons involved but when I talked to them, I could see it was way over their heads. One is an architect and the other is a senior producer at a design studio so they are smart but they absolutely had no idea what I was talking about. I've also considered patenting the procedures and anything else patentable and then get someone who can market the concept to universities and/or companies with a non disclosure agreement but when I talked to one person, I could tell that he didn't understand the concept and no matter how much I would go over it with him, he wouldn't be able to get his foot in the door since the concept is so insane and unbelieveable and if a person doesn't understand it, he wouldn't be able to market it. Sometimes a person can market something when it is mainstream but this is anything but mainstream and since it isn't mainstream, without understanding it, he just wouldn't be able to market it.

Since everything is based one individual, I don't know if everyone reacts exactly the same and therefore there has to be trials to determine possible variations. For instance, I made a statement that 750 Hz is the control frequency but that may be depend on the characteristics of the ears and someone with a different characteristic may have a different control frequency. What I am certain of is that there is a control frequency and that is putting myself out on a limb since that concept is totally insane.
Michael is offline  
Old Jul 14th 2014, 7:23 pm
  #30  
WTF?
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,352
Leslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond reputeLeslie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What To Do?

It's time for your coke dealer to cut you off.
Leslie is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.