Homeiswheretheheartis

Hello All

I am asking this question as I am completely confused how people cope with living in a county that allows the abuse of children within the law!

I don't go out looking for these news stories, but in the last couple of weeks I have come across reports of the following:

An extreme mormon sect that allows underage sex between adults and minors, multiple underage marriages between adults and minors and the policeforce in the area are part of the mormon community.

A 12 year old boy being prosecuted for murder as an adult in an adult jail, for pushing his younger brother, who banged his head and died as a result. The mother didn't get medical help and the 12 year old has grown up in an abusive family.

A school who is allowed to give the pupils electric shocks for minor 'bad' behavour.

I am living in the US at present but will be returning to the UK. I can say confidently that in the UK that none of the above would be allowed. I am not saying abuse of children doesn't happen or that some professionals don't do there job correctly that then leads to abuse being allowed to continue. But I am 100% sure that this would not be legal in the UK.

How do expats that are happy here accept and feel comfortable with a county that allows these things to happen.

kimilseung

I'm not going to comment on any individual cases that you brought up; but there are lots of things in this country that I do not like. None of the things that I do not like would stop if I left, they would continue to go on in my absence, in fact they would happen and I would not even know they were going on, and I would never speak out against them. Using bad events/laws as a reason to leave is no better then an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

fatbrit

I'm not moving back to the UK because UK citizens resident in the UK have lost their right to remain silent, have no privacy with constant surveillance, and their government will happily deport them to America on America's request. So there!

You are obviously not leaving America because of the things you listed. If you want a silly anti-American rant, try Spain/Plaza Toros. If you want to discuss one of the items you listed and see what others who live in America think, choose just one of them and provide links and background. If you want to get out of denial and start on the path to recovery, a public forum is not the place to start.

Homeiswheretheheartis

I tried to word the question without annoying people as its a genuine question, not trying to troll.

I will be leaving the US in 3 years, my husband is in the British Military and we have been posted here so I am in a very different situation than most people on here

I just find it really hard, reading or watching these news items, also knowing how so many people don't have health care and such like.

My DDs school has a notice up about education and children living in cars and today they was a father begging outside the shops for him and his homeless children.

I find I struggle each day to hear about all this and I was interested how people who will be staying deal with the situation, especially as they are aware of how other countries do things.

I understand that some Americans aren't aware of how other countries do things but we do.

I haven't got links to all the above news items, but this one is about the electric shock school, it was on Anderson today and all he keep on repeating was that it was legal.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/324352

fatbrit

So you need to turn off the local news and chat shows -- they're not doing you any favors. What would you say if an American serviceman gave his impression of England while living there on base through what he'd read in the Daily Mail?

Homeiswheretheheartis

I would tell them that the daily mail exaggarates the situation and I wouldn't mind discussing the correct facts.

These news reports aren't just from one source they are all around me. Im not asking what people think about situation, as I would expect that any sane person would be horrified.

I wondered if people try to change the situations or just live with it, or turn off the news.

The trouble with forums is that you can't tell by my tone of voice that I am really not trying to annoy people.

I'm stuggling and Im only here for a short period of time. I find enjoying the country harder because of this.

I posted on this part of the forum as I didn't want a lot of replies just saying 'yes its shit here, lets go home to the UK'. I understand that most people on this bit want to stay and are happy here, so would be able to give an honest anwser.

But I guessing it might be to hard a question to answer so that is why I haven't really got a reply to my question, it feels like I've just been told that I shouldn't have asked it.

kimilseung

It feels like you are saying this is bad, America allows it, Americans do not care, but it made the news and change.com has 250,000 signatures for a petition to get it stopped.

fatbrit

If you want to debate Skinner v. Chomsky, I'm all for it. Although it might be difficult to find Skinner fans on this board.

HisBetterHalf

Every country has injustices. Every society has injustices. To think that the problems you listed are unique to America is foolish and naive. At least such atrocities make headlines here, raising people's eyebrows and there is a general consensus that the behavior is unacceptable.

They very fact that you are reading/watching news stories about it means that it isn't being swept under the rug and there is outrage over it. Don't act as if you are alone in your outrage and the rest of us are putting our heads in the sand. The fact that you seem to think that Americans are the only perpetrators of such vile actions shows just how much you have your head in the sand.

Is some of it legal? Yes. Unfortunately. Loopholes in laws, interpretations of laws, and yes, abuse of the laws all can result in things that most people agree should not be allowed. The law is constantly evolving - sometimes a little slower than society's idea of what is just, right, and fair (hello same-sex marriage?!).

To condemn an entire country because of a few tabloid headlines - and then stating that other countries are so much better/open/evolved is beyond silly. You are in the belly of the beast living in the US - you are going to see things beyond the Disneyland image. But you will see such things in just about any country - if you open your eyes.

I'm an American - married to a Brit - and growing up I had this idea of England as a giant nationwide tea-party where every one was civil and proper and Miss Manners was the gospel. While I haven't lived in the UK, I've visited often and have seen the REAL England. I've heard horror stories of bullying, fighting, violence, theft. The neglectful parents, the gangs, chavs, the blind acceptance of thug culture. Family members who were teachers have told me of the abuse they suffered at the hands of their students - and the lack of support from administrators and parents.

My husband has told me multiple stories of pub brawls, attacks, fights, threats and the like. My in-laws live in a very well-to-do area outside of London, but have bars on all their windows because of crime/break-ins. To me, living in such a culture of fear is almost unimaginable and does not compute with the upper-middle class background of my husband and his family. But that is the real England for ya!

Or is it? I'm I making an unfair generalization? Probably.

Anyhow - I'm getting off topic. My point is, every country and society has blemishes. To condemn one society's faults is to be blind to the faults in your own. America is a big place - a very diverse place. So big that people can do awful things and not always get caught, not always get punished. But that doesn't mean that they aren't condemned by the rest of society. It doesn't mean that there is a blanket acceptance of those actions.

To think as you do - that escaping America will mean escaping injustice - says more about your close-mindedness than America's.

Brit3964

Having spent the past 3 weeks here in Old Blighty, I can tell the UK ain't what it used to be. Bearing in mind this example is comes from The Sun (National Enquirer level journalism) and is obviously designed to sell newspapers, it is being widely reported and does paint a rather grim picture of UK society these days. I should also add there is a lot of desperation here as the UK has slipped back into recession (what a great idea severe Austerity measures were ):

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-IRA-bomb.html

I lived through the 1980s recession in UK and I don't remember this kind of thing happening. All I'm trying to illustrate to the OP is that life isn't a bed of roses in the UK either. Just as the USA has changed, so has everywhere else. Right or wrong you have to be able to filter it out or else you'll go crazy.

Michael

Warren Jeffs was prosecuted and thrown in jail. None of his followers will testify about the instances. What should we do, burn them down like Waco or just arrest and jail them all because we know that they are doing those things?

We also know there is sex slaves and the selling of women throughout the world including the UK? Why isn't the UK taking care of that problem?

Homeiswheretheheartis

Ive been thinking about this all night as I really want people to understand where I am coming from. Trouble is, its hard on a forum, I think I would be here all night writing pages and pages to try and expain the question and not offend anyone.

Just to clarify, I don't think the UK is the bees knees and it has many social problems. I was more concerned with the abuse that is morally wrong but legally acceptable.

I don't think americans are indifferent to such problems.

I think a more appropriate question should have been. How do you deal with a political and legal system that allows this to happen.

And I will say that it would not and is not allowed in the UK (legally). Yes abuse does happen behind closed doors, even on a grand scale (catholic church) but not legally.

If anyone knows of such a recent case and wants to correct me, Im fine by that. (Remember its the legal cases I mean)

I had just watched the programme about the school and the electric shocks and it probably wasn't the best time to post. All I could think was, why is this not in every news paper, on every news story and being talked about in parliment.

I don't want everyone to feel I've just given up on the question, but I have as thinking about it, its to long a discussion/debate whatever you want to call it.

Thank you to the posters who tried to expain, rather that just think I was and American hating English person.

HisBetterHalf

Apologies if I gave off the impression that I was implying that. I am hardly a flag waving patriot - however whenever someone makes broad generalizations, I get a bit feisty. There are, no doubt, loads of sickening problems in American society, however, they are not exclusive to the US.

I understand you are unhappy here. From your previous posts, it seems you are miserable. I'm sorry to hear that. I know how easy it is, when you are already miserable, to focus on everything else that is equally miserable and depressing. Fixating on abuse scandals and the evils of human nature will only deepen your depression and spiral you into a place that is hard to escape.

Perhaps instead of shouting from the rooftops about what is wrong with the US and how shocking it is to your sensibilities (believe me, it is shocking to all of us!), you can use that energy and passion to work to change things.

Raising awareness, volunteering at shelters, petitions, writing congressmen, supporting open and frank discussions, joining your local community organizations (school boards, city councils, etc) - they are all a start in the right direction.

One of the GREAT things about the US (and most/many modern societies) is that individuals can make a positive difference and if they see injustice, they can actively try to do something about it - and often they are successful. Remember that for each of the awful things that sadly occurs, there are plenty of wonderful and remarkably good things that can happen in response. Sometimes it can be hard to remember that since the press often focuses on the shocking and evil - but America is so much more than just negative tabloid stories.


(ack - now I really do sound like a flag waving patriot!)

Ash UK/US

It is not unique to the UK, there is good and bad in both countries, there have been occassions having heard headlines from both that have made me say 'wow'.

Beaverstate

The unfettered free press has it's good and bad. I find the most useful information is written between the lines.