Struggling in the US
Apr 8th 2014 | 10:28 pm
#46
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,356
From: Dixie, ex UK
Re: Struggling in the US
And that is one reason why people either people aren't signing up for it, or are going to drop it after the first year, or sooner, when they realise that unless they have a medical catastrophe (several accident, stroke, heart attack, or cancer) their is no hope of insurance ever paying for any treatment.
Apr 8th 2014 | 10:55 pm
#47
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Struggling in the US
Overall, much of what you describe is now also going on in the UK. Entering a university to get a degree is seen as being the norm, and grades count for a lot (we get 800 applicants for 50 places - you have to triage somehow). Standards for GCSEs, A-levels, Standard Grades and Highers (Scotland), etc. have DROPPED over the past decades partly in order to allow more people to get enough passes to qualify for university ... so then the entry level requirements are moved upwards.
Part of the problem is that for centuries, education has been moulded by people with a certain type of intelligence and the standards and assessments still largely reflect that sort of intelligence. There are people who are highly intelligent but struggle with the rather restricted methods of teaching, learning and assessment. But then there are a heck of a lot more people who don't do well at school because either they didn't try or are just plain not intelligent no matter how you define intelligence.
I completely agree with you that the (societal) answer is not to send more people to university (widening access to university in the UK has been a complete disaster, than you for that Mr. Blair). However, unless the system changes, it is a primary answer to success in obtaining jobs, whether we like it or not.
The system sucks in many ways but until it changes we have to play by the system's rules, otherwise we will struggle.
Part of the problem is that for centuries, education has been moulded by people with a certain type of intelligence and the standards and assessments still largely reflect that sort of intelligence. There are people who are highly intelligent but struggle with the rather restricted methods of teaching, learning and assessment. But then there are a heck of a lot more people who don't do well at school because either they didn't try or are just plain not intelligent no matter how you define intelligence.
I completely agree with you that the (societal) answer is not to send more people to university (widening access to university in the UK has been a complete disaster, than you for that Mr. Blair). However, unless the system changes, it is a primary answer to success in obtaining jobs, whether we like it or not.
The system sucks in many ways but until it changes we have to play by the system's rules, otherwise we will struggle.
I thought about trades, but I can't get a high enough score on the assessment exam that is required for entry.
Apr 8th 2014 | 11:00 pm
#48
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,195
From: Beautiful Dorset, UK
Re: Struggling in the US
I left school (in the UK) in 1980 - back then, they used to say to us to work hard and get you O levels or you'll end up working on the pic'n'mix counter in Woolies! Also, in those days, there were kids who turned 16 early in the final year that could leave school at Easter before the exams - they left with nothing, not a single qualification to their name - they don't have that Easter leaving option any more - not sure how many youngsters leave with nothing these days.
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
Apr 8th 2014 | 11:04 pm
#49
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Struggling in the US
I left school (in the UK) in 1980 - back then, they used to say to us to work hard and get you O levels or you'll end up working on the pic'n'mix counter in Woolies! Also, in those days, there were kids who turned 16 early in the final year that could leave school at Easter before the exams - they left with nothing, not a single qualification to their name - they don't have that Easter leaving option any more - not sure how many youngsters leave with nothing these days.
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
I just stayed the last semester, and took fun classes I enjoyed so I could boost by gpa...lol
Apr 9th 2014 | 4:40 am
#50
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,517
Re: Struggling in the US
Very true you are. I do best learning on my terms, at my pace and what I want to learn, but when it comes to rigid requirements of school especially in subjects I struggle in like math, history and other types that are largely memorizing things and taking a test or writing a paper, I really struggle and always have, and I accept this, and after several attempts at college, and a good amount of debt from loans, I am no longer willing to waste the money on something not feasible under the current system of learning.
I thought about trades, but I can't get a high enough score on the assessment exam that is required for entry.
I thought about trades, but I can't get a high enough score on the assessment exam that is required for entry.
I left school (in the UK) in 1980 - back then, they used to say to us to work hard and get you O levels or you'll end up working on the pic'n'mix counter in Woolies! Also, in those days, there were kids who turned 16 early in the final year that could leave school at Easter before the exams - they left with nothing, not a single qualification to their name - they don't have that Easter leaving option any more - not sure how many youngsters leave with nothing these days.
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
I guess nowadays they say work hard and get a degree or you'll end up (well, I don't know what the equivalent would be now that Woolies is no more...).
Apr 9th 2014 | 6:52 pm
#51
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,585
From: State College Pa.
Re: Struggling in the US
Apr 9th 2014 | 7:59 pm
#52
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 12,090
From: Yam Yam land
Re: Struggling in the US
I remember we had one Easter "leaver" when I was in school. I remember his name. I also remember that he had his head stuck down a toilet full of disgusting [fill in the blanks] as a leaving present. It's as if anyone who doesn't fit the school/schooling "system" is made to pay one way or another.
I sometimes wonder whether he became successful after leaving with no GCEs/CSEs.
I sometimes wonder whether he became successful after leaving with no GCEs/CSEs.
Apr 9th 2014 | 11:54 pm
#54
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 113
Re: Struggling in the US
I say cheaters handbook because it is now quite obvious which fellow students of my old school read this book, if we all had this book we would have been on an equal footing.
If you read this book (may have to read it a couple of times to take it in) you will have no problems memorizing whatever you like.
For example I could give you 30 days to memorize all the Presidents of the USA and going on what you said you may remember 1/2. I could memorize the same in 1/2 a day and all in the correct order that they became President 100% correct. I can memorize a deck of cards in order that they were shuffled in 30 minutes.
I'm not cleverer than you are I just read the book.
Last edited by Pete H; Apr 10th 2014 at 12:08 am.
Apr 10th 2014 | 12:29 am
#55
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 12,090
From: Yam Yam land
Re: Struggling in the US
Well, he actually was quite intelligent but didn't adapt very happily to the secondary school environment. I wouldn't be surprised if he is thriving these days.
I heard from a similar school pal a few years back, who goofed around and bombed all of his GCEs. He now runs his own company in NYC.
[Or are you querying why I would be thinking about someone I knew so long ago?]
I heard from a similar school pal a few years back, who goofed around and bombed all of his GCEs. He now runs his own company in NYC.
[Or are you querying why I would be thinking about someone I knew so long ago?]
Apr 10th 2014 | 12:55 am
#56
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,356
From: Dixie, ex UK
Re: Struggling in the US
Well, he actually was quite intelligent but didn't adapt very happily to the secondary school environment. I wouldn't be surprised if he is thriving these days.
I heard from a similar school pal a few years back, who goofed around and bombed all of his GCEs. He now runs his own company in NYC.
[Or are you querying why I would be thinking about someone I knew so long ago?]
I heard from a similar school pal a few years back, who goofed around and bombed all of his GCEs. He now runs his own company in NYC.
[Or are you querying why I would be thinking about someone I knew so long ago?]
A school friend of mine, since we were 8 years old, seemed to have peaked when he passed the 11+ and went to the best local boys grammar school. From then on he seemed to drift, not being assigned to the elite class, and ending up with, compared to most in our year, a mediocre set of O levels (five or six, mostly C's, maybe a couple of B's), and the school really pushed him to leave at 16, but he and his parents insisted he study of A levels, which looked like a huge mistake when the results came out, and he got at E, an O (sufficient for a grade C O level), and an F (fail)!
Soooo off he went to agricultural college, and a diploma after two years, which was sufficient to secure a place at Newcastle University to do an MSc. ..... But he needed funding, and the local education authority would not fund a Masters, though they would fund a BSc in the same subject. ..... So that is what he did and three years later he had a pretty decent degree, sufficient not only to do a Masters, but in fact sufficient to be accepted onto a PhD program to study pig physiology. So that is what he did, and three/four (I don't remember which) years later he was given a PhD by.... . Cambridge University!
Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 10th 2014 at 1:09 am.
Apr 10th 2014 | 1:58 am
#57
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Struggling in the US
And that is one reason why people either people aren't signing up for it, or are going to drop it after the first year, or sooner, when they realise that unless they have a medical catastrophe (several accident, stroke, heart attack, or cancer) their is no hope of insurance ever paying for any treatment.
Apr 10th 2014 | 2:07 am
#58
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Struggling in the US
