robin1234

I think the optimistic argument is that it will cost less to cover all the uninsured, than it currently costs for the denial-of-access bureaucracy.

exvj

I think most of those 40 million folk are pretty penniless and get it paid for by the country anyway. 50% of Americans have zero net worth (wall street)

I don't think many of the 40 mill are paying from their own pockets right now...can't prove it, but I don't get that impression

and the theory is that the 'per head' cost goes down as more people can use the same machines etc

Actually, arguing from the other side, the demand WILL go up with socialised medicine - anything that's free is always a sell out - still for it though

Steerpike

Wow - EXCELLENT article! I'm sending it off to everyone I know . As an IT / techie, I really appreciate the analogies to the phone system, etc.

Anyway - This extract is worth noting: "The French health-care system has among the highest public-satisfaction levels of any major Western country; and, compared with Americans, the French have a higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, more physicians, and lower costs. In 2000, the World Health Organization ranked it the best health-care system in the world. (The United States was ranked thirty-seventh.)"

I'm truly on the 'winning end' of the current system right now - employed, excellent coverage, choice of doctors, deluxe service; cheap (subsidized) premiums. But I'll gladly give that up now - I will happily pay MORE, and get SLOWER service, in return for a system that will cover me in the future when I may not have a job and insurance. I had a hernia repair about 5 years ago. I put it off by choice for years, but finally, the doctor said, "you may as well do it now as it will need to be done sooner or later (this was true), and your ability to heal gets worse as you get older". He wasn't pushing me, it just came up during each annual checkup as I complained of the pain. The minute I told him I would go ahead and do it, things happened like lightening - approval, meet specialist, surgery - boom (less than a month, I think). The actual surgery was in a resort-like facility, and I had two nurses prepping me before hand, and afterwards had two nurses pampering me. Considering I was getting sliced up, it was as good as you could hope for. I could have waited 6-12 months for that operation. And the bills I saw afterwards - staggering. Plus - they screwed up the billing, of course - Ins. Co. tried to get me to pay, even though it was all pre-approved, because of a technicality - the surgery center did not 'code' the procedure appropriately, and it took months to get resolved. It's not like the current setup is not already a bureaucratic nightmare.

Captain Cheesestick

Group insurance rates would go down to reflect the additional law of numbers - but the premium (low as it would be with all these extra people) would cover the gap.

Really - it wouldn't cost anything extra.

another bloody yank

I want to make sure I follow you here...


So more govt involvement = less bureaucracy = everybody insured for less than it costs to insure a percentage of the population currently?

exvj

Me too and I don't even work - my wife has a great job with top health care -but, like you, it just tells me how much I stand to lose if that changes and I want to feel safer than this

I reckon we would be paying 10k each for the same cover and still might get insurance company hassle in an individual scheme

Socialized medicine is just like pooling public Policing costs through taxes, even though you have never been burgled. Policing is too important to be privatised and so is health

neil

How much profit do insurance companies make? How much extra padding do doctor's etc put into their bills because they know they won't get the full amount? How much is spent by medical providers dealing with billing, chasing payment, and dealing with insurance companies?

robin1234

A comparison with Britain - UK pays about 7% of its GDP for healthcare, while the US pays about 13%. Why? Most UK expenditure is for medical personnel and delivery of service.. comparatively little on bureaucrats. US, less on medical services and more on bureaucrats. Why the difference? In the US they have to work out in every case whether they have to pay for the service you are claiming. In Britain, if you are a living breathing human being, you get service.

To quote the article in the current issue of Harpers;
"The argument for single payer is straightforward. When everybody is in, you don't have to spend a lot of time and money deciding who to keep out."

Steerpike

Further - 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' ... . As pointed out by others, no one in this country is ultimately denied absolute life-threatening care - if you show up at a 'county hospital' bleeding to death, they WILL take you in (and this was Bush's incredibly naive and insulting justification for saying, 'everyone in the US has healthcare'!). The cost of fixing a problem when it's reached crisis conditions is a lot more than the cost of checkups, medications, etc. My g/f is alive today because she goes for annual checkups; they caught her cancer early enough. Her sister, however, was uninsured and did not have annual checkups. By the time her cancer was found, it was too late and she died - after several years of expensive medical treatment at the hands of the 'county', and various charities. Checkups, screenings, tests, etc are cheap compared to the alternatives.

Jerseygirl

What's NI contributions got to do with it?

surly

Are you ready for $8/gal gas and 19% sales tax?

exvj

Too true !

2 weeks ago I had a ten yearly routine catflaposcopy which cost 3k and they dont bill me a cent

You dont get a routine thing like that on the NHS and they should

meauxna

It's my suspicion that people don't talk about it. I disagree with your conclusion.

Jerseygirl

Of course you do.

notacrime

NI contributions are supposedly what pays for the NHS (but there's a hefty subsidy from other tax revenue sources.)

In the US they split out Social Security from Medicare, but it's lumped together here in the UK.