Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
#48
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
The Big Picture
For 2015, costs have once again increased pushing the prices higher on both sides, especially for the low cost operators.
There are several drivers for the price increases. First the permit cost has gone up, not down as advertised by the Ministry. It is now a flat $11,000 per climber instead of $70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber. Second, after the tragic deaths of 16 mountain workers in 2014, many companies will increase the life insurance required by the Ministry. It is now USD$15K up from USD$10K for what they call High Altitude Workers. Most operators will abide by these new levels but it is unclear if the requirement will be enforced evenly across the board and those competing on price will meet the requirement. The third reason for increased costs is inflation. Nepal’s inflation rate is currently 9.47%.
Additionally, Nepal has implemented a new rule that requires every foreign climber in Nepal to hire a local Sherpa Guide. This policy has been in place for trekkers since 2012 but not enforced. After the large number of trekker deaths in the Annapurna region earlier this year, the policy was re-communicated. I remain unclear if it will really be enforced in 2015 for Everest climbers but if so, will add a minimum of $4,000 to the absolute lowest cost.
Many non-Nepali operators are adding additional guides and services to their offering. Each Western Guide can make between $10K and $25K and this cost is passed on to the clients. Some companies are adding European chefs, adding to costs. Some are offering extra oxygen starting lower, adding to costs. In the end, this is real money and the client pays the tab.
Those at the high-end have again held their prices steady absorbing the increases. The average price of the companies I surveyed looks to be about $41,700 with no Western Guide and $57,000 on the south with Western Guides and $46,000 on the north.
The primary difference between north and south are the permit costs and support staff salaries. The North has seen dramatic prices variances for 2015 with high-end operators of Alpenglow ($79,000) and Himex ($64,000) entering the market and skewing averages. The traditional north operators average about $37,000.
For 2015, costs have once again increased pushing the prices higher on both sides, especially for the low cost operators.
There are several drivers for the price increases. First the permit cost has gone up, not down as advertised by the Ministry. It is now a flat $11,000 per climber instead of $70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber. Second, after the tragic deaths of 16 mountain workers in 2014, many companies will increase the life insurance required by the Ministry. It is now USD$15K up from USD$10K for what they call High Altitude Workers. Most operators will abide by these new levels but it is unclear if the requirement will be enforced evenly across the board and those competing on price will meet the requirement. The third reason for increased costs is inflation. Nepal’s inflation rate is currently 9.47%.
Additionally, Nepal has implemented a new rule that requires every foreign climber in Nepal to hire a local Sherpa Guide. This policy has been in place for trekkers since 2012 but not enforced. After the large number of trekker deaths in the Annapurna region earlier this year, the policy was re-communicated. I remain unclear if it will really be enforced in 2015 for Everest climbers but if so, will add a minimum of $4,000 to the absolute lowest cost.
Many non-Nepali operators are adding additional guides and services to their offering. Each Western Guide can make between $10K and $25K and this cost is passed on to the clients. Some companies are adding European chefs, adding to costs. Some are offering extra oxygen starting lower, adding to costs. In the end, this is real money and the client pays the tab.
Those at the high-end have again held their prices steady absorbing the increases. The average price of the companies I surveyed looks to be about $41,700 with no Western Guide and $57,000 on the south with Western Guides and $46,000 on the north.
The primary difference between north and south are the permit costs and support staff salaries. The North has seen dramatic prices variances for 2015 with high-end operators of Alpenglow ($79,000) and Himex ($64,000) entering the market and skewing averages. The traditional north operators average about $37,000.
#49
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
I think anyone that engages in trophy hunting clearly has self esteem issues. I don't agree with it all, I can't imagine I'd much enjoy being in the company that did enjoy it. However, I think the reaction to this is ridiculous. It's been going on for years, but because a guy shoots a tagged lion, there's uproar. I saw a clip of Jimmy Kimmel from last night where he hammered the guy. He did however say "I don't think we should start a witch hunt against the guy"....... right after naming him! What a complete ****tard!!!! I'm against trophy hunting, but I think the reaction to this has been ridiculous. The guy is almost certainly gonna lose his likelihood which to me, is a rather hefty price to pay for what he did.
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to raise public awareness of what most people consider is an abhorrent activity and if this a***hole gets caught in the crossfire (pardon the pun ) then too bad. As far as I am concerned his career is as expendable as Cecil the lion was to him.
#50
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
I dont agree with hunting myself, but there is a certain amount of hypocrisy here. Why does the life of a lion hold more value than the life of a pig or a cow?
Why are we content to leave hundreds of millions of chickens in tiny cages, having their arseholes pecked at all day, but we get in uproar over lions being hunted.
Like I said, I dont agree with it, but neither do I get the double standards.
Why are we content to leave hundreds of millions of chickens in tiny cages, having their arseholes pecked at all day, but we get in uproar over lions being hunted.
Like I said, I dont agree with it, but neither do I get the double standards.
I've taken to buying only 'cage free' eggs, meat from responsibly raised pigs/cows, etc to do my part in eliminating the poor treatment of 'farmed' animals. If a pig/cow is raised ethically, and killed quickly, and is fully consumed, then that is definitely a different order of magnitude of issue compared to killing a lion for pure fun, and especially by using an arrow which is highly unlikely to be a 'clean' kill under the best of circumstances.
#53
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
He paid the locals tens of thousands of dollars to arrange that. It was they who opted to lure a relatively tame lion out of its protected zone, presumably because they wanted to make easier money.
He didn't tell them to go find a celebrity media star of a cat. How would he have possibly known which lion this was?
He didn't tell them to go find a celebrity media star of a cat. How would he have possibly known which lion this was?
#54
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
And I think there is a big difference between the kind of "clients" described in books like Into Thin Air, who get boosted to the top by guides, and the professional climbers, who may have to band together to get a permit, and will use sherpas for the donkey work of setting up bases, but will make solo climbs in the end.
#55
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
And I think there is a big difference between the kind of "clients" described in books like Into Thin Air, who get boosted to the top by guides, and the professional climbers, who may have to band together to get a permit, and will use sherpas for the donkey work of setting up bases, but will make solo climbs in the end.
#56
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
The real issue here is, if someone is willing to pay $35,000 for a permit, in a country where $35,000 is an unbelievable amount of money, you can bet there is a massive amount of corruption and rule-bending going on. The 'facilitators' in Africa are probably breaking every rule in the book to make this guy happy, and for his part, the guy paying the $35,000 is surely aware that the facilitators are going to break the rules. He may be able to stand in court and 'prove' he did this legally, but I am certain he knew that illegal actions were going on in his name.
It is legal to hunt lions in Zimbabwe.
The desire to try and convict this guy in the media is more worrisome than anything else, particularly when the story sounds as if it could be legitimate. Let's not confuse the distastefulness of his hobby and his questionable character with an intentional criminal act.
#57
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
I think anyone that engages in trophy hunting clearly has self esteem issues. I don't agree with it all, I can't imagine I'd much enjoy being in the company that did enjoy it. However, I think the reaction to this is ridiculous. It's been going on for years, but because a guy shoots a tagged lion, there's uproar. I saw a clip of Jimmy Kimmel from last night where he hammered the guy. He did however say "I don't think we should start a witch hunt against the guy"....... right after naming him! What a complete ****tard!!!! I'm against trophy hunting, but I think the reaction to this has been ridiculous. The guy is almost certainly gonna lose his likelihood which to me, is a rather hefty price to pay for what he did.
And yes, it's barbaric that we have mass shootings every week in the US; there should be an equal amount of outrage on that issue also. The fact the public has become jaded to such events is truly sad, but that should not be used as a reason to suggest it's 'out of proportion' to be outraged by this killing - we SHOULD be outraged by all these things.
This guy is sick in the head if he thinks it is appropriate to shoot such a massive animal with an arrow. The fact it took 40 hours to track down and finally kill the animal indicates just how inappropriate his tool of choice was.
I truly hope he loses his livelihood; it may serve as a warning to others, and if nothing else will prevent him from funding such endeavors in the future.
#58
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
Unfortunately for him his case has become a touchstone for trying to stop trophy hunting of big game animals. It is common and totally normal for high profile events to be used to change the law and or public opinion of all sorts of activities. It took 9/11 to tighten airport and on-plane security, it took the banking crisis of 2008 to tighten the rules on banks taking excessive risks, and the New Horizons rig explosion to tighten rules on oil rigs.
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to raise public awareness of what most people consider is an abhorrent activity and if this a***hole gets caught in the crossfire (pardon the pun ) then too bad. As far as I am concerned his career is as expendable as Cecil the lion was to him.
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to raise public awareness of what most people consider is an abhorrent activity and if this a***hole gets caught in the crossfire (pardon the pun ) then too bad. As far as I am concerned his career is as expendable as Cecil the lion was to him.
#59
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
Seems like this is not his first lion (2008). I kind of assumed people like this bagged one of each.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/schaff...7623354181680/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/schaff...7623354181680/
Last edited by kimilseung; Jul 29th 2015 at 6:49 pm.
#60
Re: Rich Dentist kills Majestic Lion
I already provided an article that showed that paying $50k-ish for this kind of thing is pretty normal.
It is legal to hunt lions in Zimbabwe.
The desire to try and convict this guy in the media is more worrisome than anything else, particularly when the story sounds as if it could be legitimate. Let's not confuse the distastefulness of his hobby and his questionable character with an intentional criminal act.
It is legal to hunt lions in Zimbabwe.
The desire to try and convict this guy in the media is more worrisome than anything else, particularly when the story sounds as if it could be legitimate. Let's not confuse the distastefulness of his hobby and his questionable character with an intentional criminal act.