morpeth

Every country has its own traditions and symbols.

I think in America there is a cultural/political divide that is making symbols/traditions symbols/rallying cries reflecting the overall divide. My observation is over the years the country has become divided such that building consensus an compromise has become more difficult.

For many America needed to create its own traditions and in accordance with the melting-pot theory needed to avoid Balkanization of the country through building a national identity. So I think the pledge represents a symbol for many beyond simply whether the pledge itself is that important.

I guess the other factor many in America are sick of people running down the country and the constant criticism. This is not unlike what happens in other countries, if as a foreigner in Latin America I make a criticism of local situation it comes across differently than if a local makes the same criticism. Maybe academia and the media have taken this anti-traditional America ideology too far for many who remain patriotic ( which may be excessive but just the way it is).

Many Europeans I know when asked one of first impressions of America comment on how often one sees American flags flying every where. After spending quite a few years in America in three states, it is quite interesting how many private homes have flagpoles with the American flag flying. Or how often Americans automatically think America is best at everything.

Leslie

FYI the majority of neurotics on this thread are Brit transplants.

I'm actually hoping that they're drunk posting otherwise they'll need this link ....

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/get-help/immediate-help/

scrubbedexpat097

Why do you keep harping on about her not knowing what is going on in the "real world"

I guess you are not aware of how most intelligent parents and their kid's react and converse are you? Not all people stick their kids in front of cartoon TV and let them ignore the real world.

And you also need to chill out. You've had your 15 minutes, there will be another chance for another one soon I'm sure.

Pulaski

And, by the same logic, making a scene out of objecting to reciting it makes no sense either!

kimilseung

The lack of ambition for America from our favourite curmudgeon is what strikes me most. "Its better than some other places, look how bad it is over there, we should only be thankful for the half in the bottle we have" Are we to assume that he thinks America is at its zenith (socially and economically)? or success is only assessed by comparison? The parochial political ambition of a Stoke City, where lower half Premiership is success, if it is higher than Derby County?

kimilseung

No one has made a scene out of not saying it, lets make that quite clear. No one. And I quibble at the use of the word "objecting" too, she declined an invitation, that is the extent of her actions in this context. The teacher has chosen to make a scene, and I am prepared to make a scene in response to my child being punished.

The words themselves have no magic powers, no Bloody Mary will be revealed by their utterance. The question is only are you free to chose to say them, or will there be a punishment of any kind (no matter how lenient) for not saying them? One answer is constitutional, the other is not.

Pulaski

I wasn't aware she had been punished.

Leslie

And, by the same logic, some of the objectors in this thread have gone way OTT in their objections to her objection. To the point of sounding like fanatical lunatics TBH.

kimilseung

His quote of "Oh and by the way I'm fully exercising MY rights under the First Amendment also" made me think that he doesnt really understand what the First Amendment is to begin with, it read to me like he thinks it gives him freedom to post on boards on the web, rather than it being the publishers/owners/mods and admins of the site giving him that ability.

Dorothy

Much like objecting to sitting at the back of the bus or only drinking out of certain fountains makes no sense.

dc koop

Duh ! Whys should I know anything about kids. I only have three grand daughters 13, 11 and 7 so that makes me a complete ignoramus on the subject of kids right ?

Seriously I don't need any lectures from you though. Our kids are very aware of what the state of the world is, perhaps too much so as the eldest one tends to worry a lot about the possibility of war. They're also proud to be Americans, so your diatribe above was totally wasted on me

ian-mstm

It does - because your granddaughters' parents know them a lot better and have more influence over them than you do.


Umm... they're not actually your kids. I'm pretty sure they belong to someone else! You understand that simple fact, right?


That's a shame, because you might learn something about tolerance.


I'm pretty sure most things are totally wasted on you!

Ian

Leslie

dc koop

Where does a kid of eleven get the idea that there's no God ? I'm not saying there is a God and I'm not saying there isn't... fact is I haven't a bloody clue on the matter. I'm not smug or knowledgeable enough to make a judgement either way.

It doesn't really matter a monkeys to me if your daughter refuses to recite the pledge, why should it ? and I would be the last one to deny her that right. I'm just curious as to why she at such an early age has decidedly fixed views. An open mind on all matters of life would be a healthier outlook at that age.

I dare say you'll respond by calling me a twat or a kant.. You're a rude son of a bitch and something of a self styled pseudo academic intellectual with it.

I can only say you'll put the poor child through a lot of embarrassment as you battle back and forth with the teacher on the intricacies of the Constitution and cause the child's peers to start pointing fingers at her. She doesn't need that

Leslie

Best. Thread. Ever.