Planespotting II
Apr 3rd 2019, 11:52 am
#166
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Planespotting II
10m15s of ugly viewing. 
Learjet 35A Teterboro Runway 1 Approach Crash 5/15/2017 - NTSB Animation
https://youtu.be/2dE6LROPK58
Learjet 35A Teterboro Runway 1 Approach Crash 5/15/2017 - NTSB Animation
https://youtu.be/2dE6LROPK58
Apr 3rd 2019, 12:28 pm
#168
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Planespotting II
Per a summary report from northjersey.cöm:
I am not sure why the co-pilot was in the cockpit, or even why he had a job flying planes. If you don't have the ability to fly a plane, on your own, what is the point of you even being there? Aren't you there as a safety back-up, in case the pilot becomes incapacitated? 
The pilot was old enough, and presumably experienced enough, to know better. He was apparently blasé about the risks he was running, and you would think an experienced pilot would know better than to trust a plane, and indeed his life, to someone who lacked experience, and apparently, competence. I am guessing "ex-military".
A New Jersey co-pilot was not qualified to fly a private charter aircraft that crash-landed near Teterboro Airport last May, killing him and the plane’s pilot.
Documents released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board showed that the co-pilot, Jeffrey Alino, lacked sufficient hours of flying experience to fly the Learjet 35A and hadn’t scored well in his flight simulator training when he was hired by Trans-Pacific Air Charter in 2016.
Alino was at the controls for most of the flight from Philadelphia to Teterboro, but a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder reveals he became nervous about the landing and handed off the controls to the pilot, William Ramsey, less than a minute before the plane stalled and crashed in Carlstadt.
"I'm gonna give ya your controls okay?" the transcript shows Alino said to Ramsey.
"Alright. my controls," Ramsey said.
The transcript notes the sound of "strained breathing" and "high-frequency aerodynamic noise" as Ramsey struggled to regain control of the aircraft.
"Add airspeed," Alino said. "Airspeed. Airspeed. Airspeed."
"Stall," Ramsey said, in a strained voice.
"Yup," Alino said.
Seconds later, Ramsey cursed, and the recording ended.
Ramsey, 53, and Alino, 33, were killed. There were no passengers aboard.
Documents released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board showed that the co-pilot, Jeffrey Alino, lacked sufficient hours of flying experience to fly the Learjet 35A and hadn’t scored well in his flight simulator training when he was hired by Trans-Pacific Air Charter in 2016.
Alino was at the controls for most of the flight from Philadelphia to Teterboro, but a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder reveals he became nervous about the landing and handed off the controls to the pilot, William Ramsey, less than a minute before the plane stalled and crashed in Carlstadt.
"I'm gonna give ya your controls okay?" the transcript shows Alino said to Ramsey.
"Alright. my controls," Ramsey said.
The transcript notes the sound of "strained breathing" and "high-frequency aerodynamic noise" as Ramsey struggled to regain control of the aircraft.
"Add airspeed," Alino said. "Airspeed. Airspeed. Airspeed."
"Stall," Ramsey said, in a strained voice.
"Yup," Alino said.
Seconds later, Ramsey cursed, and the recording ended.
Ramsey, 53, and Alino, 33, were killed. There were no passengers aboard.
The pilot was old enough, and presumably experienced enough, to know better. He was apparently blasé about the risks he was running, and you would think an experienced pilot would know better than to trust a plane, and indeed his life, to someone who lacked experience, and apparently, competence. I am guessing "ex-military".
Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 3rd 2019 at 12:30 pm.
Apr 3rd 2019, 12:35 pm
#169
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Planespotting II
I agree 100% and was referring to the PIC. Did he think he was for some reason incapable of performing well on the flight? Is that why he failed to fly the plane himself, then failed to communicate with the SIC and the ATC correctly, and then failed to understand what the plane was doing until it was too late?
It seems like his brain was 30 minute behind the aircraft instead of in front of it, and with that happening usually fatigue is involved or some other factor that is a distraction.
It seems like his brain was 30 minute behind the aircraft instead of in front of it, and with that happening usually fatigue is involved or some other factor that is a distraction.
Last edited by civilservant; Apr 3rd 2019 at 12:40 pm.
Apr 3rd 2019, 12:39 pm
#170
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Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Planespotting II
Apr 3rd 2019, 12:40 pm
#171
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Apr 3rd 2019, 1:09 pm
#173
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Planespotting II
I think we all realize the SIC should not have been flying the aircraft, since they clearly state that in the video. The PIC however clearly either
a) did not know
b) did not care
c) thought it was an acceptable risk
I can't believe the first 2 for an experienced pilot, which leads me to conjecture why the 3rd might have been the case,
a) did not know
b) did not care
c) thought it was an acceptable risk
I can't believe the first 2 for an experienced pilot, which leads me to conjecture why the 3rd might have been the case,
Apr 3rd 2019, 1:39 pm
#174
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Planespotting II
I think we all realize the SIC should not have been flying the aircraft, since they clearly state that in the video. The PIC however clearly either
a) did not know
b) did not care
c) thought it was an acceptable risk
I can't believe the first 2 for an experienced pilot, which leads me to conjecture why the 3rd might have been the case,
a) did not know
b) did not care
c) thought it was an acceptable risk
I can't believe the first 2 for an experienced pilot, which leads me to conjecture why the 3rd might have been the case,
Apr 3rd 2019, 5:40 pm
#177
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Planespotting II
The Captain:
No mention of ever being in the military.
Total pilot flying time 6,898 with 5,819 as PIC and 1,158 in Lear jet series.
First license in 1993 as a private pilot, with subsequent certificates issued in 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2014
Held the following certificates at time of accident: Airline Transport Pilot (certificate issued November 26, 2014) Airplane Multiengine Land; LR-Jet, BE-400 (SIC), MU-300 (SIC) type ratings.
Previous pilot who had flown with him indicated Captain was not proactive in the cockpit when using checklists, this same pilot told the NTSB he did not feel supported by the Captain when flying with him.
Another former Captain told the NTSB the accident Captain was"“fine with his CRM” as a co-pilot, but was “absolutely not ready to check out as a captain” due to his inexperience"
Captain has a 2002 drivers license suspension due to excessive points that was not self reported as required,
Captain was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon in 1986 and this was also not self reported as required on his most recent medical certificate application.
A search of records shows no previous accidents or incidents being reported involving the accident Captain.
SIC had 2,675 hours total time when hired, and 265 hours in the Lear series.
SIC had previously flown with MedFlight Air in New Mexico who had initiated a review of employment due to weak performance, initially hired in August 2015, SIC resgined in January 2016.
SIC self reported a conviction May 2003, and stated on the application “I was street racing and running away from the police and assault on a police officer, but it was a third degree.”
A review of FAA records shows no previous accidents or incidents involving SIC
Training notes from SIC instructor for Sept 2016 sim training
-Struggled with normal procedures
- Did not perform takeoff checks correctly or know what to look for during the checks
- Did not know how to start the engines
- Crashed on first takeoff due to incorrect flight director settings
- Unable to control speed and altitude during the stall series
- Flew inverted on the unusual attitude module
- Crashed on landing during an ILS approach
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/60000-60...373/611460.pdf
Improving safety at part 135 operators is on the NTSB's most wanted list. Part 135 operators are not held to the same standards as Part 121 operators.
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/mwl/Page.../mwl3-fsa.aspx
No mention of ever being in the military.
Total pilot flying time 6,898 with 5,819 as PIC and 1,158 in Lear jet series.
First license in 1993 as a private pilot, with subsequent certificates issued in 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2014
Held the following certificates at time of accident: Airline Transport Pilot (certificate issued November 26, 2014) Airplane Multiengine Land; LR-Jet, BE-400 (SIC), MU-300 (SIC) type ratings.
Previous pilot who had flown with him indicated Captain was not proactive in the cockpit when using checklists, this same pilot told the NTSB he did not feel supported by the Captain when flying with him.
Another former Captain told the NTSB the accident Captain was"“fine with his CRM” as a co-pilot, but was “absolutely not ready to check out as a captain” due to his inexperience"
Captain has a 2002 drivers license suspension due to excessive points that was not self reported as required,
Captain was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon in 1986 and this was also not self reported as required on his most recent medical certificate application.
A search of records shows no previous accidents or incidents being reported involving the accident Captain.
SIC had 2,675 hours total time when hired, and 265 hours in the Lear series.
SIC had previously flown with MedFlight Air in New Mexico who had initiated a review of employment due to weak performance, initially hired in August 2015, SIC resgined in January 2016.
SIC self reported a conviction May 2003, and stated on the application “I was street racing and running away from the police and assault on a police officer, but it was a third degree.”
A review of FAA records shows no previous accidents or incidents involving SIC
Training notes from SIC instructor for Sept 2016 sim training
-Struggled with normal procedures
- Did not perform takeoff checks correctly or know what to look for during the checks
- Did not know how to start the engines
- Crashed on first takeoff due to incorrect flight director settings
- Unable to control speed and altitude during the stall series
- Flew inverted on the unusual attitude module
- Crashed on landing during an ILS approach
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/60000-60...373/611460.pdf
Improving safety at part 135 operators is on the NTSB's most wanted list. Part 135 operators are not held to the same standards as Part 121 operators.
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/mwl/Page.../mwl3-fsa.aspx
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Apr 3rd 2019 at 5:47 pm.
Apr 3rd 2019, 5:45 pm
#178
Often not so civil...
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
Re: Planespotting II
SIC had previously flown with MedFlight Air in New Mexico who had initiated a review of employment due to weak performance, initially hired in August 2015, SIC resgined in January 2016.
Basically he had no business being in a cockpit, much less flying the plane.
Apr 3rd 2019, 5:51 pm
#179
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Apr 3rd 2019, 5:53 pm
#180
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Planespotting II
The link is from 2011, so improvements may have been made since then to improve safety, and reduce fatal accidents.
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/speeches/r...alt_050411.pdf