ironporer

Because one would hope that society should be BETTER than the murderer...not on the same level.

In my opinion, spending the next 60-70 years is a far more terrible punishment than "putting him to sleep" anyway.

Rete

As Dutch said, "No" on the point I don't have authorization. But if I did have the authorization, flame me all you want, but YES I could and would.

Just as I don't believe in an insanity plea (to commit a heinous crime one would to be mentally depraved), I do believe in capital punishment. And I believe it is inumane to allow the criminal to lanquish in prison for years before sentence is carried out. Allow them one year to try to overturn the conviction and then carry out the sentence.

Rete

Grahame And Laura

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:50:12 -0800, Andrew DeFaria
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Grahame and Laura wrote:
    >> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:36:00 +0000, dutchman2001nl
    >> <member16161@british_expats.com> wrote:
    >>> Originally posted by elviswasmydad
    >>>> Well the jury agrees with you .
    >>> I sure as hell don't. Look at the lives he has taken... the families
    >>> will never see their lovedones again. I'd say: Death penalty ! no
    >>> exception.
    >> He was a kid, nobody cared for him, and an older person manipulated
    >> his need for love and guidance. I'm not saying he shouldn't be made to
    >> answer for what he did, but a system that wants to kill him is as
    >> vicious and merciless as the crimes themselves.
    >Your emotional arguments carry little weight. If what you are saying is
    >true then what stops millions of other kids, with nobody caring for
    >them, and an older person manipulating them for their need for love and
    >guidance from doing the same thing? We would have an epidemic of serial
    >snipers yet we don't.

Because people aren't robots, each human is different and reacts
differently to what life hands out.

Grahame and Laura

K-1 app. mailed 1/24/2002.
First NOA received 2/4/2002 (dated 1/28).
Approval via automated phone line 2/13.
Sydney consulate cabled 2/14.

dutchman2001nl

That's right... if I did have the authority, I would and could also.

Andrew Defaria

Grahame and Laura wrote:

    >>> He was a kid, nobody cared for him, and an older person manipulated
    >>> his need for love and guidance. I'm not saying he shouldn't be made
    >>> to answer for what he did, but a system that wants to kill him is as
    >>> vicious and merciless as the crimes themselves.
    >> Your emotional arguments carry little weight. If what you are saying
    >> is true then what stops millions of other kids, with nobody caring
    >> for them, and an older person manipulating them for their need for
    >> love and guidance from doing the same thing? We would have an
    >> epidemic of serial snipers yet we don't.
    > Because people aren't robots, each human is different and reacts
    > differently to what life hands out.

Yes people aren't robots and each human is different. I did not say, nor
mean to infer, that *every* neglected kid would become a sniper. However
if you're theory was to hold true then it stands to reason that
statistically there would be a lot of this going on everyday - yet they
ain't. What does that say to you about your own theory?

Face it. Some people are good people. Ergo some people are bad people.
This one is a bad one. Deflecting responsibility to another person it
not the answer. People should be held accountable for their actions.
Both of these people perform similar bad actions. Both have been found
guilty and both are facing punishment. One is facing more punishment
than the other. Why? The only issue is the fact that one was a minor. If
we are compelled to try some minors as adults then they should also be
compelled to face adult punishment. YMMV.
--
Nebraska: At least the cows are sane.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

But you didn't. The jury had the authority. They sat in on the entire trial and heard ALL of the admissible evidence and testimony.

And they exercised the judgement entrusted to them

dutchman2001nl

And in my eyes the jury failed. (in a way, that is).
But we'll never solve this issue, he got life, so be it.

Rete

Actually I believe the response of would and could pertained to Sibsie's question as to whether you would have the capability to do the actual deed; not the ability to vote for the death penalty but to carry it out.

As a US citizen, I stand behind the due process of law and accept, albeit reluctantly, the jury's decision. It does not alter my beliefs. They were the ones who heard the evidence, made the decision on his guilt or innocent and the degree of his guilt and his subsequent sentencing. His lawyers or future lawyers will be the ones to either defend him in another state against similar charges and possible death sentences if again convicted. They, too, have to work within the system.

Rete

sibsie

My point was that I've met a lot of people who read newspapers reports on murders and shout Death Penalty but I've come across very few who would be willing to do the deed themselves. My personal opinion is if that you are going to agree with an eye for an eye then you should be willing to take that metaphorical eye yourself.

When I was dealing with the families of murder victims I came across very few who wanted the death penalty. I think there have been far too many cases of miscarriages of justice for me to ever be happy with it. But that's just one of the reasons I'm opposed to it.

I firmly believe in life meaning life though with no chance of parole.

dutchman2001nl

Sibsie,
Where have you been a police officer? England?

sibsie

Yes in London Dutch.

dutchman2001nl

Ok, then I have a question....
If I recall correctly, police there aren't armed with a gun (correct me if I'm wrong).
But if you were.... have you ever shot and killed anyone?
Cause if you did..... isn't that an execution too then?... without a trial? Would that be different than a death penalty?
Remember, this is just a question..... just curious.

sibsie

Police in the UK aren't routinely armed. I did basic firearms training but elected not to take it any futher.

I don't agree that police shootings and death penalty are the same at all. When the police shoot it's for a very good reason, at least in England it is. It's to stop an immediate problem and to prevent someone's life being taken at that moment. The police officer then has his weapon taken off him and a full investigation carried out.

The death penalty is not to prevent a specific crime being committed. It's a sentence that reflects a crime that has already been committed. The two roles of the police are the prevention and detection of crime.

To cite an example. There were two very famous cases of the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four. Both were IRA terrorism cases tried at the Old Bailey. In passing sentence of the Guildford Four the judge commented that if they had been tried for Treason (for which the death penalty still exists in England) he would have had no compunction in passing the death penalty.

Years later it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the four were innocent of all charges and had been convicted as the result of a corrupt investigation.

dutchman2001nl

Oh.... Unfortionately mistakes happen too often.
I agree that there has to be 100% sure of having the right guy before executing. But I still stand by my opinion when they do have the guy.

dutchman2001nl

Too bad.
If I mastered the English language 100%, then I'd love a more indepth conversation.
But I need to think about certain words, and can't find them. Also this is the wrong place for such a topic.
I'll stand down on this topic.........