katzgar

When you consider there are several types of homicide that are not included in Britain's homicide rate it's really hard to know what the actual rate is given the rate stated by the Brits is cooked and dishonest

RoadWarriorFromLP

And your knowledge of law and statistical methods came from where exactly?

scrubbedexpat099

Orlando gunman’s father condemns atrocity but says 'punishment' for gay people is up to God | US news | The Guardian

An interesting take.

mikelincs

I see Westboro baptists are having a lot to say..

https://twitter.com/godhatesfagswbc

RoadWarriorFromLP

Before the gun nut comes back with links to lame blogs that have all of the value of used cat litter, perhaps we should consider what the original sources have to say about their own statistics:

FBI -

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines murder and nonnegligent manslaughter as the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by another.

The classification of this offense is based solely on police investigation as opposed to the determination of a court, medical examiner, coroner, jury, or other judicial body. The UCR Program does not include the following situations in this offense classification: deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident; justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder or assaults to murder, which are classified as aggravated assaults.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...rdermain_final
Office of National Statistics -

The term ‘homicide’ covers the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. Murder and manslaughter are common law offences that have never been defined by statute, although they have been modified by statute. In this bulletin the manslaughter category includes the offence of corporate manslaughter which was created by the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 which came into force on 6 April 2008. The offence of infanticide was created by the Infanticide Act 1922 and refined by the Infanticide Act 1938 (section 1)...

...Homicide Index data are based on the year when the offence was recorded

Chapter 2: Homicide - Office for National Statistics

Funny how those two definitions sound remarkably similar.

Anian

Now we have the hypocrisy of the little Englander who is happy to accept that the Euro violence is just a handful of troublemakers while the Orlando shooter is considered a typical Muslim, all in the same breath.

Hiro11

Copy / paste from previous posts.

1. By "no gun control", I assume many of you mean "no blanket gun ban". Let's be specific. There are many, many gun control laws on the books.
2. Anyone arguing that "gun control" would immediately prevent this type of crime needs to explain themselves fully. This isn't obvious.
3. Mass murder, as tragic as it is, is not the core tragedy of gun violence in this country. The 1,679 people shot in Chicago city limits alone YTD is the core problem with gun violence in this country. Note: Chicago has had a blanket gun ban for years.

My point in posting this is not to argue against a blanket gun ban per se. Of course I want to see practical solutions implemented that would provably reduce gun violence in the US. If a blanket gun ban could be practically implemented and if a blanket gun ban would provably reduce violence in the US, I'm all for it. However, that's not entirely clear. My point is that these threads always present the issue as a monochromatic problem with one obvious solution if only those dumb Americans could get their shit together. To me, that's dishonest and lazy.

Pulaski

This. Unless the gun ban advocates are aware of some arcane magik that would eliminate guns, a gun "ban" will likely have little impact for decades given that a well-maintained gun will remain operative indefinitely, potentially for several centuries, parts and spares can be manufactured easily on a small home mill set-up, and bullets can be "reloaded" cheaply without a need for buying new bullets. FIFY - The Supreme Court struck down the Chicago gun ban in 2010.

Nutmegger

Unlike a person with an assault weapon, a person wielding a knife is not able to take out 50 people and hurt 50 more in a matter of minutes.

Rete

Here we go again. There is gun control in Europe and still terrorists can get their hands on them and other types of weapons.

Why does something have to be done. I'm not a member of the NRA, although my husband is, and I have never held or shot a gun and never will. But he is licensed to carry and own his guns and the US border agents allowed him in from Canada with his long guns which he registered<?> with the firearms agency's Manhattan Office.

This person could have just blown the club up with a mixture containing fertilizer which is readily available at Home Depot. Guns are not the problem here but the individual and zealous religious nuts.

Anian

Looking at the history of shooters versus those who make explosives, the latter are far less successful and need significantly more planning that can flag them to authorities.

Also, why don't the guys who make explosives also carry guns? It seems like an obvious backup plan. In fact, why would anyone use knives at all considering how much more difficult they are to kill people with compared to guns? It seems like guns are maybe not as easy to come by as people think, just because the odd group has managed to get some.

RoadWarriorFromLP

And yet the homicide rates in Europe are still lower.

The lack of a zero homicide rate is not a rebuttal. If you had a drug that could reduce cancer rates by half, would you claim that it was useless because it couldn't cure everyone?

Rete

I don't know? Why don't they? How do we know that they don't have them? I recall reading that when they finally arrested some of those involved in the Paris massacre that there were multiple guns and assault weapons found. It is the same in this country. There are laws governing who can purchase a gun but they are easily available on the streets. The only true way to stop shootings is to stop making guns.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm not getting into an argument about gun control and Euro vs US means of death. The statistics are there for easy viewing for all that are interested. Honestly? It would appear that the US has a higher statistic of mentally ill people. Sad commentary on a supposedly highly sophiscated nation.

sir_eccles

Not all football fans...

katzgar

given how basly the UK cooks its homicide rate there is no way to know what it actually is Police fix crime statistics to meet targets, MPs told - BBC News https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...hief-inspector seems clear low homicide rates dont need to be cooked.