Now its School Bathrooms
 

Now the Obama administration, through Friday’s letter from the Education and Justice Departments, has reinforced and specified its interpretation that transgender students are afforded sweeping civil rights protections under Title IX, the federal law prohibiting sex-based discrimination in educational programs and activities. That includes allowing transgender students access to bathrooms, locker rooms and other school facilities that align with their gender identity.

Read more: Obama's transgender student directive inflames culture wars - POLITICO
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This should be fun, but it does beg the question, do they not have anything better to do?

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

Texas, Arkansas and elsewhere say nope, we don't like it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/official-...152404674.html


"The last time I checked, the United States is not ruled by a king who can bypass Congress and the courts and force school-age boys and girls to share the same bathrooms and locker rooms,"

"We will not be blackmailed by the president's 30 pieces of silver,"

"When I get that letter, I'll throw it away."

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

Don't mess with Texas.

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It's certainly interesting to postulate why this has suddenly become an issue for the legislatures of several "red" states, but is pretty much a non-issue elsewhere.

Also interesting to postulate why Boiler felt the need to open another bathroom thread...

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Yes, it is certainly the highest priority for our school children...

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Who cares what outer room people go in to. Not like everyone has to be in the same cubicle at the same time.

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I'm not to sure on that. I suspect that a fair number of ladies would be shocked at the condition of some of the mens bathrooms. Like this Starbucks bathroom from ShitterStock:

http://www.heytrainer.org/blog/images/uploads/sewer.jpg

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The only thing that I remember from school bathrooms is Izal toilet paper. Yuck. I'd rather hold it until home time.

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Ladies are far worse usually.

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Wasn't IZAL the "Disinfectant toiler paper" that was a mix between tracing paper and baking sheets?

I only buy this for work:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v1_0_hZMml...ilettissue.jpg

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I doubt any schools will bother about what Obama says

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I think this school district is paying attention:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cf6_story.html

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Oh come on now. A couple years ago this was a non existent issue ANYWHERE, as in wasn't even considered. A manufactured problem.

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Hmmm...

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And promulgated for political reasons.

Mind you if I was of school age I can only imagine how much fun could be had with this sort of ruling.

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Exactly. Manufactured by the Republican Party to create a "wedge" issue in an election year. If none of these laws had been passed, this would have been the non-issue it always was:

" In a little-noticed move this winter, the Republican National Committee called on states to pass laws limiting access to school bathrooms and locker rooms based on students’ “anatomical sex.”"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/us...-bathroom.html

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

That's exactly right. This isn't an agenda being pushed by the left. It is the backlash to an agenda being pushed by the right. Unfortunately, most Republicans don't even understand the basic facts of their current frenzy whipping. But, don't let the facts interfere with the GOPs obsession with little girls and their peepee parts.

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Funny how all the outcries of 'this is social engineering overreach by the federal government!' sound exactly like the early days of the civil rights movement.

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Always on the wrong side of history.

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A photo from Seattle's Safeco Field, baseball stadium. :)
Why everywhere is not like this, I do not know.

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Being a bit of an old fart myself, I've never quite understood this whole transgender thing. A man becomes a woman, how does that work? It's actually impossible to become a different sex in the true sense. A man becomes sort of a woman.
Not that it would bother me if a transgender woman or an actual woman used the men's room. In fact I've seen it several times, most men are quite amused by it.

Are there actually any transgender school children? I wouldn't have thought so.

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

Why would you think that?

The answer, as the link in post 12 shows, is that yes of course there are.

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I hardly ever open links. I admit to being quite ignorant on the subject.


I'd like to hear more from the women's point of view

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It's not just about the sex that most of us are clearly born with, but the gender roles that are then culturally assigned to that sex. Most of us stick with the gender society gives us at birth others do not.

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I have to admit to a certain cognitive dissonance on the subject of transgender.

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I believe if you catch it early enough you can cure it, same with the gays. It is quite possible to 'Pray Away The Gay, the Michele Bachmann way.



:lol:

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What sort of a point of view do you think 'women' - all of them..? - have on this?

I rather think that ascribing a certain constrained point of view/ expected pattern of behaviors/ set of cultural norms to people based purely on their biological gender, probably contributes to the cognitive dissonance that's experienced by the people who define themselves as transgender.

Speaking only for myself, not all women, I've long since learned that I can't truly know or understand other people's lived experience, and that generally accepting other people's explanation of their thoughts and feelings, taking them at their word, and trying to be kind and accepting is the best all-round approach compared to meanly 'should-ing' them.

People make all sorts of life choices about their living situation/ life partners/ employment/ finances that don't seem logical to me, that are not how I would have approached a situation, and sometimes even seem injurious to their Future Selves, but *shrug* it's all part of life's rich tapestry, so if it makes them happier and is harmless to others... I think the inference that they're sexual deviants is disgusting and outrageous. I, as a middle-aged heterosexual woman, don't go around hunting down pre-pubescent boys or cute men to molest in my spare time, and I imagine the same lack of pedophilia or predatory behavior is true for people who are attracted to the same gender, or define as transgender.

I care somewhat less than 0.00000000000001% what fleshy bits the person in the next cubicle is using to pee through.

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

I don't know? That's why I asked the question. Most of the reposes seem to be from men.

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Well, I gave you mine. Since there's no such thing as 'the' women's point of view, like we're a uniborg*, we'll have to wait for the other 3.5 billion to come along and see what they post.

*Am currently irked by the political/ media expectation that we're all going to magically vote for Hillary out of vagina solidarity, because 'oh, that one has a penis, just like me!' has been the only determining factor for male voting patterns for centuries.

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

Well since we see women's issues all the time in the media, I'm surprised to hear there's no such thing as a women's point of view. Do you not think that their are women that will vote for Hillary, because she is a woman?

Re: Now its School Bathrooms
 

As are many people who take their cultural cues about gender and other norms from a conduit for creating imaginary lifestyle problems, then selling products to 'solve' them.

Like I said - I think that the very notion of 'the women's point of view' and 'the men's point of view' and how each gender is supposed to think and act, goes a long way towards explaining why some people believe that they are in the 'wrong' body.

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I imagine there are. It depresses me as much as the notion that there are people who wouldn't vote for Obama because he is black.

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Well I've been told not to express my opinions and argumentative as a new member, to be more conformist to the forum norms, so I've probably said too much already.

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For some (though not all) I believe there are genetic factors. Extra y chromosomes etc. There is now an opinion that there are more than just two sexes. Intersex being some spectrum in between.

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First Amendment always applies since this section of the forum is for expats living in the US

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I firmly believe these transgender issues are a mental illness, same with homosexuality. I accept how that sounds (yeah, I'm clearly a massive homophobe yadda yadda yadda) but it clearly is. Funny how post modern society suddenly deems sex with people of the same gender perfectly normal, deems those who wish to change genders as perfectly normal, but adults who are sexually attracted to kids, that's wrong and pretty much the worst crime you can commit should you act on it

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because the former issues involve consenting adults, the latter issue involves people who cannot consent because of their age and physiology, their lack of understanding/concept of what happens in a sexual relationship, the inability for it to be reciprocal based on an equal understanding and the imbalance of power in such a "relationship". Society acts to protect the weaker and vulnerable members.

But otherwise, yeah, really relevant to compare transgender issues and homosexuality with paedophilia.

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Iv'e heard that argument that no one chooses to be a pedophile either. Prepare for a firestorm. It all comes down to what makes sense in evolution and nature, if it doesn't help the species....

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Trans woman here, so I'll chime in.

I've been using women's toilets since I was a teenager and I'll continue to do so, irrespective of the law in whichever jurisdiction I'm in at the time. Nobody has noticed before and nobody will notice now. It's just funny how the right-wing pearl clutching think of the children demographic have just realised we exist. The irony for them is by legislating 'no men in women's toilets', they're actually legislating for men in women's toilets. I suspect most trans men are offering them the courtesy of ignoring their law, but I'm sure some will happily educate them on the consequences of their legislation.

Plus, the UK government reissued my birth certificate to say that I was female at birth, so I'm not sure I'd even breach the NC law anyway.

It does make life even more difficult for those in early transition though.

Physically, the person takes medication to stop the body producing or reacting to testosterone, meaning any effects of this are reduced to zero. Oestrogen then comes in causing the body to feminise, including natural breast growth, and weight distribution to cause natural 'curves'. Surgery to change the pitch of the voice, give any of the natural processes a 'boost' (like facial feminisation or breast augmentation) are optional, as is genital surgery.

Does this turn XY chromosomes into XX? No. But chromosomes have never matched to sex or gender in society, because we don't DNA test people to decide which box they should be shoved into. Quite a few people might be surprised to find that their chromosome pairs don't match their sex, such as woman with androgen insensitivity syndrome who'll likely be XY. Plus there's XXX, XXY, XYY etc. Also, there's a new field of science called epigenetics, which investigates whether our DNA changes according to our environment, such as taking hormones.

Yes, transgender children do exist, because it's a condition that you're born with. It's simply that society has changed to the point that people can come out sooner. I came out in the 2000s at age 14. If I was born ten years later, I would've done it around age 5.

The DSM agrees that it's a mental illness, although mostly to help facilitate medical treatment. People don't really 'change gender' as such. It's not like a man spends his time quite happily in the male gender role and then one day suddenly decides he should've been female. Having to comply with the wrong gender roles is hell. More, it's changing your life to reflect the gender you always were.

I think it's more like nobody chooses what they're attracted to, but they do choose whether or not they act on those feelings. I'd wager there's a chunk of people with sexual attraction to children, and who are absolutely disgusted with themselves and would never act on it in a million years. Yet, there's nowhere for them to get help.

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Just for the record, as a cis woman it wouldn't bother me in the slightest using the same bathroom or changing facilities as RGH80 or any other trans woman, regardless of how far they were in the transition stage. I don't get my sexual jollies from/in those environments and I've never met a woman who has either. We just do what we need to do.

I assume it's the same in the male facilities, although I can't help wonder given the amount of pearl clutching (love that phrase) going on.