BritInParis

I’d chalk that one up as a win

Steerpike

Just curious ... Am I supposed to have been filing tax returns in the UK for all this time I've been away? I never bothered because I've never intended to return. Will my attempt to make catch-up payments, or my attempt to ultimately claim a pension in the future raise this as an issue?

BritInParis

Not unless you had a UK income source like a business or rented property.

BEVS

Just did this for myself. Signed up for the UK Govt Gateway using my NI number and UK passport . They sent the verification codes to my N mobile which got me up and running.

I have a shortfall of 3 years. Thats 3 x GBP780 = GBP2340 to gain a full state pension rather than 32/35ths . Checking the difference it seems that what I would pay out would be netted back in just under two years. Seems not bad to me at all.

I shall have MrBEVS check. He is younger than me but he has been working full time in New Zealand so I have asked if his working time here helps go towards any shortfall there. UK and NZ have reciprocal agreements. Nothing ventured and all that.

We cannot have both NZ and UK state pensions here , just one or the other but if we do return to the UK it is better it be with a full UK state pension tucked under the belt.

OldJuddian

You can safely use your US address with the NI team, it certainly makes communication easier.

Steerpike

780 / 52 = 15 - so you are assuming class 3 contributions. Is that cut and dried for you?

What's the deal with not being able to have both NZ and UK pensions? So if you choose to stay in NZ when you retire, your UK pension will not have any value to you?

I just did a bit more research on the US/UK situation and came across this ( https://www.ssa.gov/international/ ) - "The Windfall Elimination Provision Tool (WEP) will help you learn if your foreign pension will reduce your U.S. Social Security benefit.". Looking at that tool, "The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) is a provision in United States law that changes the way your U.S. Social Security benefits are calculated. WEP can reduce your U.S. retirement or disability benefits if you receive a pension based on work and you did not pay U.S. Social Security taxes on those earnings.". So this suggests my US Social Security benefit (which I'm already fully qualified for and is quite generous) could be impacted if I get something from the UK pension system. However, reading about the WEP factor - https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf - it seems I'm ok because ...

The Windfall Elimination Provision doesn’t apply if:
- (list o' stuff that's not relevant to me...)
- You have 30 or more years of substantial earnings under Social Security.

And I've paid substantially into the SS system for well over 30 years ... so I guess I'm ok on that one.

Are there any other provisions anyone is aware of that could prevent me from getting both the UK and US pensions concurrently in the US?

Steerpike

Will they ever want information about my non-UK income? There was something I saw somewhere about having to file a UK return if I earned over 100,000 GBP. Depending on prevailing exchange rates, I have potentially made over that amount a few years out of the past 35 or so years I've been here. Are there no circumstances under which I'd have to pay UK taxes on US income, assuming the US income was fully taxed by the US IRS?

BritInParis

You do need to report your worldwide income to HMRC once you are resident in the UK but you won’t need to declare any non-UK income during the time you were a non-tax resident. HMRC are not going to come after you for any US income you received whilst living in the US. Only the US and Eritrea tax on the basis of citizenship rather than residence.

BEVS

It seemed to be that Class 2 was for the self employed. Perhaps I was not reading that correctly.

It has value to New Zealand. They will take it to offset any NZ superannuation. There is a reciprocal agreement.

Steerpike

Well it's certainly worth researching further! Here's what I posted above ... for Class 2 (3 GBP vs 15 GBP), you must have been working in UK before departure, and lived there for 3 years ...

This page - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-nationa...-contributions says the following, regarding class 2 and class 3:
Living and working abroad
Class 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions

Living abroad but not working
Class 3 - but only if at some point you’ve lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions

This page - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-nationa...ibutions/rates says the following, regarding actual rates:

The rates for the 2019 to 2020 tax year are:

£3 a week for Class 2
£15 a week for Class 3


There's a reciprocal agreement between UK / US also, but it doesn't seem to affect me - per what I posted above.

BEVS

Yes I certainly shall.
I have sent an email via the website and am waiting a reply.

Steerpike

FYI, after sending an email (and not getting a response), I called their 'help desk' number from the US. Wasn't free but I have a pretty cheap calling plan. Person I spoke to was quite helpful. They advised me to fill out form NI38. I'd already read the form and had several questions about specific line items, so I was able to fill out the form with better answers. The form is a bit wishy-washy, in my opinion - it's more of a way of getting more information.

BEVS

I've not had a response either.

I will have to try and call the help desk line but with a 13 hour time difference it may be a little bit of a mission from experience.

Steerpike

I filled out and mailed form NI38 around December 2 - that's over 10 weeks ago, and I still haven't seen anything back. Is this 'normal'?

I may be making a trip to the UK later this year (just passing through). Given the potential value to me of this pension, it may be worth a visit to some 'local office' somewhere. If I were to be in the UK for just a couple of days (in transit to my final destination), are there physical offices staffed with real human beings who could better assist me with this? I would likely be passing through Manchester, if that matters.

Bevs, did you hear anything back? Did you submit any forms yet?

PS part of my challenge is that the mail delivery in my neighborhood is terribly flaky; half the time, my mailbox receives mail for my neighbors, and my neighbors receive mail intended for me. So there's always a chance they sent me something and it went astray. I do use the 'informed delivery' service from the USPS, but that doesn't seem to be fully comprehensive either (sometimes I get physical mail in my box that never got photographed, and sometimes I get notifications with words like 'you have received a mail piece for which no image exists'.

robin1234

Yeah I think I had to wait six or eight months for a response to that form. When you hear from them, though, it’s always good, reliable info. I definitely wouldn’t try to visit a common or garden local office.