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National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Old Dec 2nd 2019, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I just got off the phone with a pensions 'helpline' in UK. The lady said because I've been working abroad, I'm not limited to the 5 years of catch up allowed, and I can catch up from roughly 2003 to now - 15 years or so. AND - it seems - I can start making 'current' payments going forward! She said I should fill out form NI38 as best as I can for now, then mail it in. They will respond with more details as to what my options are ... "in about 7 weeks plus 4 weeks postage" ... which I'm going to assume will be a lot less. Next step is to mail in the paperwork ... I'll post back here as things progress.
I’d chalk that one up as a win
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
I’d chalk that one up as a win
Just curious ... Am I supposed to have been filing tax returns in the UK for all this time I've been away? I never bothered because I've never intended to return. Will my attempt to make catch-up payments, or my attempt to ultimately claim a pension in the future raise this as an issue?
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 10:05 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Just curious ... Am I supposed to have been filing tax returns in the UK for all this time I've been away? I never bothered because I've never intended to return. Will my attempt to make catch-up payments, or my attempt to ultimately claim a pension in the future raise this as an issue?
Not unless you had a UK income source like a business or rented property.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:27 am
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Just did this for myself. Signed up for the UK Govt Gateway using my NI number and UK passport . They sent the verification codes to my N mobile which got me up and running.

I have a shortfall of 3 years. Thats 3 x GBP780 = GBP2340 to gain a full state pension rather than 32/35ths . Checking the difference it seems that what I would pay out would be netted back in just under two years. Seems not bad to me at all.

I shall have MrBEVS check. He is younger than me but he has been working full time in New Zealand so I have asked if his working time here helps go towards any shortfall there. UK and NZ have reciprocal agreements. Nothing ventured and all that.

We cannot have both NZ and UK state pensions here , just one or the other but if we do return to the UK it is better it be with a full UK state pension tucked under the belt.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 4:42 am
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I see that the address associated with my NI number is my UK address from the 70s. Not sure if I can safely change that to a US address.
You can safely use your US address with the NI team, it certainly makes communication easier.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 6:48 am
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Just did this for myself. Signed up for the UK Govt Gateway using my NI number and UK passport . They sent the verification codes to my N mobile which got me up and running.

I have a shortfall of 3 years. Thats 3 x GBP780 = GBP2340 to gain a full state pension rather than 32/35ths . Checking the difference it seems that what I would pay out would be netted back in just under two years. Seems not bad to me at all.

I shall have MrBEVS check. He is younger than me but he has been working full time in New Zealand so I have asked if his working time here helps go towards any shortfall there. UK and NZ have reciprocal agreements. Nothing ventured and all that.

We cannot have both NZ and UK state pensions here , just one or the other but if we do return to the UK it is better it be with a full UK state pension tucked under the belt.
780 / 52 = 15 - so you are assuming class 3 contributions. Is that cut and dried for you?

What's the deal with not being able to have both NZ and UK pensions? So if you choose to stay in NZ when you retire, your UK pension will not have any value to you?

I just did a bit more research on the US/UK situation and came across this ( https://www.ssa.gov/international/ ) - "The Windfall Elimination Provision Tool (WEP) will help you learn if your foreign pension will reduce your U.S. Social Security benefit.". Looking at that tool, "The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) is a provision in United States law that changes the way your U.S. Social Security benefits are calculated. WEP can reduce your U.S. retirement or disability benefits if you receive a pension based on work and you did not pay U.S. Social Security taxes on those earnings.". So this suggests my US Social Security benefit (which I'm already fully qualified for and is quite generous) could be impacted if I get something from the UK pension system. However, reading about the WEP factor - https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf - it seems I'm ok because ...

The Windfall Elimination Provision doesn’t apply if:
- (list o' stuff that's not relevant to me...)
- You have 30 or more years of substantial earnings under Social Security.

And I've paid substantially into the SS system for well over 30 years ... so I guess I'm ok on that one.

Are there any other provisions anyone is aware of that could prevent me from getting both the UK and US pensions concurrently in the US?
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 6:54 am
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Not unless you had a UK income source like a business or rented property.
Will they ever want information about my non-UK income? There was something I saw somewhere about having to file a UK return if I earned over 100,000 GBP. Depending on prevailing exchange rates, I have potentially made over that amount a few years out of the past 35 or so years I've been here. Are there no circumstances under which I'd have to pay UK taxes on US income, assuming the US income was fully taxed by the US IRS?
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 1:21 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Will they ever want information about my non-UK income? There was something I saw somewhere about having to file a UK return if I earned over 100,000 GBP. Depending on prevailing exchange rates, I have potentially made over that amount a few years out of the past 35 or so years I've been here. Are there no circumstances under which I'd have to pay UK taxes on US income, assuming the US income was fully taxed by the US IRS?
You do need to report your worldwide income to HMRC once you are resident in the UK but you won’t need to declare any non-UK income during the time you were a non-tax resident. HMRC are not going to come after you for any US income you received whilst living in the US. Only the US and Eritrea tax on the basis of citizenship rather than residence.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 9:04 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
780 / 52 = 15 - so you are assuming class 3 contributions. Is that cut and dried for you?
It seemed to be that Class 2 was for the self employed. Perhaps I was not reading that correctly.

What's the deal with not being able to have both NZ and UK pensions? So if you choose to stay in NZ when you retire, your UK pension will not have any value to you?
It has value to New Zealand. They will take it to offset any NZ superannuation. There is a reciprocal agreement.


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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:33 pm
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Default Re: National Insurance paid over 30 years ago ... any use?

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
It seemed to be that Class 2 was for the self employed. Perhaps I was not reading that correctly.
Well it's certainly worth researching further! Here's what I posted above ... for Class 2 (3 GBP vs 15 GBP), you must have been working in UK before departure, and lived there for 3 years ...

This page - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-nationa...-contributions says the following, regarding class 2 and class 3:
Living and working abroad
Class 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions

Living abroad but not working
Class 3 - but only if at some point you’ve lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions


This page - https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-nationa...ibutions/rates says the following, regarding actual rates:

The rates for the 2019 to 2020 tax year are:

£3 a week for Class 2
£15 a week for Class 3



Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
It has value to New Zealand. They will take it to offset any NZ superannuation. There is a reciprocal agreement.
There's a reciprocal agreement between UK / US also, but it doesn't seem to affect me - per what I posted above.
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