Re: Minimum wage
 

It is not just the political clout but when the workface to make a million cars has decreased to about 1/5th compared to 40 years ago, there is not enough highly paid blue collar jobs to support the retail and services industry employees at decent salaries.

Some believe that developed economies can become a service oriented economy and provide jobs but unfortunately without the highly paid blue collar jobs or high tech areas like the Silicon Valley, salaries will remain low for those workers.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Well not everyone, I was a little unfair there, but it does seem to be the prevailing view.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying most of these people are capable of brain surgery, but even if you are of low intelligence it dosen't mean you deserve to be treated like crap.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Or Rocket Science?

Re: Minimum wage
 

Exactly. Nobody does.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Looking down on or taking the piss out of someone because of their low income or low intelligence is not socially acceptable.

However

Looking down on or taking the piss out of someone because of their high income or high intelligence is socially acceptable.

The amount of times i've given my job title when asked in a social situation and gotten awkward remarks : flashy, geeky, whats that then? Oh your alright jack then etc etc etc.
I often find it easier to dumb down my job title to something simpler, more acceptable and that doesn't result in a bunch of follow up questions.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Agreed. I rarely say what my job actually is, and if asked usually say what it was that I start my career doing, more than twenty years ago.

The funny thing, from my perspective, is that while making observations, comments, or asking questions about personal traits or characteristics is generally socially unacceptable, I find it curious that people will ask about accents and more especially about someone's height, but only if they're tall. You wouldn't comment on someone being fat, thin, or short, so why do people think it OK to make comments to someone who is tall? Personally I don't give a stuff if someone asks, but I just find it odd that they do (ask), when nobody but a socially inept nitwit would say "My, aren't you short. How short are you?", or "Good heavens, aren't you fat?". :unsure:

Re: Minimum wage
 

It started ending long before the Thatcher era. In the 1960-1970s, the Japanese started manufacturing products at a very low cost since the Yen/US$ exchange rate was a very high 280:1 which was undervalued by about 50%-60%. Then in the 1980s, the Koreans, Indonesians, and Malaysians started to displace the Japanese as the Yen rose and those currencies were undervalued. Then the Chinese displaced the others with an undervalued currency. Now the cheap place with undervalued currencies to make products is Vietnam and Bangladesh.

There has been a race to the bottom that has been taking place for the past 50+ years.

Re: Minimum wage
 

But the attitude?

Re: Minimum wage
 

I don't think attitudes have changed significantly other than the well paying blue collar jobs have been lost and therefore some people assume that there must be decent paying blue collar jobs since there always was when they were younger. Therefore they may assume that people aren't trying hard enough.

However I will admit that people seem to have less tolerance now than in the 1960s when they see a high paid blue collar worker not accomplishing his/her job.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Certainly the level of expectations rose, and it is much harder to raise them that drop them.

There has been a cascade of changes over the years, technology in the 60's, move to the service sector in the 70's, then IT bubble and now what?

You could envisage a rational balance, but seems most unlikely.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Well for most of the low paid workforce, turning off the tap supplying virtually unlimited low-cost/low-skill labour would help, allowing the price of labour to reflect it's scarcity. But neither political party, nor the Fed seems willing to allow that to happen. Instead of restricting supply and allowing market forces to take care of the resulting "labour shortage", many politicians want to try to force the market price of labour up despite the fact that the supply- demand imbalance will only get worse, and exacerbate unemployment in the process.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Have expectations risen or is it primarily that the well paying blue collar jobs have disappeared and many parents don't think their children will be better off then they were?

I think many people have assumed that each following generation will be better off than the previous generation and that dream appears to be dying in most developed countries. Therefore parents may push harder or even make discouraging remarks.

Re: Minimum wage
 

Yes I guess that's part of it.

Re: Minimum wage
 

But that type of government is primarily 3rd world where there are a few wealthy and 90+% are working for less than $2 per day. If you also look at the tax rate as a percentage of many 3rd world countries, it is very low since the only people that have money are the wealthy few and they have the power and don't want to spend money on education, health, and infrastructure for the masses.

If that was implemented in developed countries, I suspect there would also be a lot of $2 per day workers as businessmen cuts costs by finding the cheapest labor available. It would be the race to the bottom for many since someone will always do something cheaper than someone else if they are starving. Then shanty towns are created as that is all anyone can afford. All you have to do is look at Tijuana to see how well that system works.

Re: Minimum wage
 

I think you entirely missed my oblique reference to illegal immigration. I was sure that you'd have a comeback and criticism of my admittedly simplified analysis, but you appear to have got entirely the wrong end of the stick. :unsure: