Just Jenney

I would have posted this yesterday, but Mark's naturalization experience didn't go exactly as planned...

First the good news, short and sweet: Mark's now a brand spanking-new US citizen!!!

Our next steps are to 1) get him a new SSN card (his current one still has the INS legend on it); 2) get him registered to vote; and 3) get him a US passport.

It is weird to think that this immigration trip is finally over. Honestly, it hasn't sunk in yet at all that we won't have any more dealings with USCIS ever again. No more applications to file. No more fees to pay. No more having to keep track if it's been X years minus 90 days for us to take care of this or that. No more wondering what kind of documentation is appropriate to include, no more tax transcripts to order. No more having to remember to inform USCIS when we move, no more having to do anything with them.

Although going through US immigration has been a taxing experience at times, one of the most wonderful benefits -- aside from being able to bring Mark to the States and marry him -- is that I developed these fantastic friendships with so many of you over the years. I have enjoyed all the discussions, banter and laughter that we have all shared for the past 6 years. You have all made dealing with immigration doable -- from your advice and knowledge, to just your general support. I don't have to name names because you know who you are. Thank you, for all of your guidance and encouragement, but mostly your friendship. I'll still hang out here, contributing when I can, but I feel like this is sort of my "graduation speech" so to speak.

Now for the details -- this is VERY long, mostly so that I can give other Norfolk applicants an idea of what to expect. However, if you prefer, I have provided a short summary of the following at the very end of my post:

Mark's naturalization interview was scheduled for 10.20am on Monday, August 4, 2008. The USCIS Norfolk office is about 105 miles from our house in Richmond, so we left at 8am so we could be there by 10am. Well, it was good that we included this extra buffer time, because about half-way there we hit stand-still traffic on I-64E around Williamsburg, the result of a car crash. It took us 40 minutes to drive 2 miles. Luckily there was no congestion at the Hampton Roads Tunnel (something I had worried about) so we arrived at USCIS with 5 minutes to spare!

The security guys -- there were two of them -- were very nice and efficient. After going through security, they instructed us to drop Mark's N-400 interview notice in a box towards the front of the waiting room. There were about 10-12 other people already there, waiting for various things.

Mark got called up at 10.50am, a half-hour after his scheduled appointment. He was interviewed by a woman called Mellanie Patterson, who was dressed very nicely but it looked like she was going to a party, which I thought was a bit weird. I had instructed Mark to remember as many details as he could:

First, she had him take an oath to tell the truth, etc. Then, she checked over his green card, Virginia drivers license and passport.

She then went over his N-400 application with him, checking to see if anything had changed since he'd filed it in March 2007. The only thing that had changed was that he'd been outside the country for 2 weeks in May, which affected his answers on page 4 of the application. In preparation for this, I had redone page 4 with his updated information (thanks to Dan725's suggestion on this!), which he handed to her; she handed the old, out-dated page back to him. She also asked him for some updated documentation to confirm we're still married and living together. He gave her tax transcripts for our last 3 federal tax returns, as well as a couple of bank statement printouts and an electric bill printout.

Next up was the citizenship test! Mark said that instead of her asking him the questions, she had him ask AND answer the questions. By doing this, she tested his English reading ability as well as his English verbal ability. She didn't have him stop once he'd gotten 7 correct -- she had him do all 10 questions. Here's what he was asked (not sure about the order, though):

1) How many stripes are there on our flag?
2) How many states are there in the Union?
3) What makes up Congress?
4) For how long do we elect each Senator?
5) What are the duties of the Supreme Court?
6) Who is the current Governor of the state you live in?
7) What were the 13 original states called before they were states?
8) What is the introduction to the Constitution called?
9) Name one right or freedom guaranteed by the First Amendment.
10) Where does freedom of speech come from?

Mark answered all of these correctly. She told him that he was approved and gave him an approval notice, and she told him to return at 2.15pm that afternoon for the oath ceremony. The whole thing took about 15 minutes! YAY!

Although we had no doubt that Mark would be approved, we were mostly happy because we could get the whole shebang done in one day. We had 3+ hours to kill before the ceremony, so we go to lunch at Ruby Tuesday's and then spend the remaining 90 minutes wandering around Target -- fun times. We're back at USCIS by 2pm, when we notice there is a growing queue outside the entrance. All the people were there for the oath ceremony, most of them approved N-400ers and the rest family and friends. The security guard split up the group into two queues so that the N-400ers would be admitted into the building first. (This meant the family/friends had to stand outside, wilting and waiting in the 100 degree heat; I made what I thought was a funny comment about the feeling like a second-class citizen but no one else seemed to see the irony for some reason. )

Before letting anyone in, the security guard went over some stuff, such as how the oath appointment notice had to be filled out on the back (no mention of black ink, though), and there were 2-3 people who still hadn't done this, which I thought was odd. He advised the women to leave their purses in their cars, and that although cell/camera phones weren't allowed, regular digital cameras were for anyone who wanted to take photos. (I did bring our camera and I'm really glad that I did, as I got some nice photos of Mark.)

At 2.10pm on the nose the guard started letting people in one-by-one. We all sat in the waiting room for about 15-20 minutes before this woman (didn't get her name) called up all of the N-400ers. I remember Mark suddenly blurting out something about his friend discovering that she has a grapefruit-size cyst on her kidney as he was walking away -- aww, the last thing he ever said to me as a non-USC. LOL

According to Mark, the N-400ers are being given all kinds of instructions -- you all have to sit in assigned seats, your country of (former) citizenship will be called and you have to stand up, then we'll listen to the nation anthem, then you'll take the oath, then we'll watch a video message from President Bush, then we'll listen to watch a music video for that (horribly cheesy) song, "I'm Proud to Be an American," then you'll file out in the order of your seats, you'll be handed your naturalization certificate, which you can take the front desk area in the waiting room and sign using the pens provided. It must be signed in black ink or else the certificate is null and void. Now, it appears that someone has not shown up as expected so we need to rearrange your seating order... Oh geez, this Vietnamese woman's interpreter is not here and she doesn't understand anything we're saying, she's not moving to her correct seat assignment... This is getting complicated...

This went on for over 20 minutes. Meanwhile, I'm sitting in the waiting room wondering what the hell is going on, starting to worry that maybe I was mistaken, perhaps the oath ceremony would be done outside the family/friends' presence, etc. Finally, after what seemed like forever, we were called back to the oath ceremony room -- which was really tiny, surprisingly. There were 16 N-400ers from 14 different countries. Mark was sitting in the front row while I sat in the back. I have to admit that I did get a little teary-eyed.

Everything went smoothly. Although separated, both of us struggled not to laugh when the "I'm Proud to Be an American" video was playing -- which was REALLY hard because the woman conducting the ceremony was silently singing along to it -- sometimes with her eyes closed. Seriously.

She then instructed all the family/friends to go to the hallway, where we could take photos as the new USCs were handed their naturalization certificates at the door. I missed that shot because my camera was in auto shut-down mode, but I took a couple of nice photos of Mark holding the form right after that. (You can see my photos in our BE gallery.) The woman then said, in a very loud voice for everyone to hear, that they should take their certificates to the front desk area of the waiting room and sign their certificates. Everyone started wandering in that direction, so we followed.

There were four pens at the front desks. Two were loose pens, and two were those kind that attach to the desk with a cord attachment. All of the pens were black on the outside. After waiting for someone else to finish with it, Mark used the pen on the far right, one of those attached to the desk with a cord. After he signed it, I held it up to take a look at it. And then I heard Mark say these words:

"Oh no! They said it had to be signed in black ink, or the certificate would be void. I signed in blue ink!"

And there it was, Mark's signature in blue ink. We immediately said something to the other people who were signing their forms, that they need to make sure the other pens were in black. The person who had signed his certificate using the same pen Mark had used had already left the building. Unfortunately he's going to discover at some point that his certificate is just a piece of paper. It turned out of that all of the other pens had black ink -- except the one that Mark used.

The lady who ran the ceremony was still in the back, so we quickly went back there to alert her to what happened and ask what could be done. When Mark showed her his certificate and explained what happened, she started laughing, put her hand over her eyes and shaking her head back and forth. I think a verbal translation of her body language would have been, "You stupid idiot, what did you do THAT for!" And she did reiterate that she had instructed him to sign in black ink. Mark's response was that she had ALSO instructed him to use one of the pens at the front desk to sign his certificate, so it was a natural assumption that all of those pens would have black ink (especially those pens that were permanently attached, like the one he'd used).

Her response: "You should never assume! You should've have tried the pen on something else first to make sure it was black." In our minds, Mark and I were both thinking, "Are you serious, lady?! It was an honest mistake, and done only because he was following your instructions to use the pens in the waiting room to sign." To her credit, she took his certificate and said she'd speak to her supervisor and see if anything could be done about it.

We went back to the waiting room and soon we were the only people left. It was really disappointing -- such a happy moment, 5 years in the making, and then this. Unlike Mark, I'm more familiar with what needs to happen to replace a naturalization certificate -- he'd probably have to file the N-600 and pay $460 to get a replacement, and it would take probably a year to obtain. This would mean we'd not only be out $460 but he'd miss his chance to vote in the presidential election (no certificate = no proof of citizenship = no proof of his right to vote). All because of some stupid blue ink.

About 5 minutes later, the lady came out and said, if we didn't mind waiting, they create a new certificate for him. Of course we'll wait! Big smiles and relief all around. Then about 15 minutes later, a different lady and also a man came out with the new, unsigned certificate in hand. Unfortunately they said the person who needed to sign it had already left for the day (at 3.30pm?!) and we needed to come back tomorrow. This new lady made a point to rub it in that Mark had assumed all the pens were black, which I thought was totally rude and completely unnecessary. I also didn't like how casually she said, "Come back tomorrow morning," as if it was no big deal for us to do so. But we didn't have any alternatives so we said we'd be back at 8am Tuesday morning. We left the USCIS office empty-handed and pretty upset by the entire experience.

So this morning, we got up before sunrise and were on the road by 6am. I took another day off from work and (like Monday) drove us down to Norfolk. Poor Mark doesn't have any more vacation days so he had to be back in Richmond in time to go into work for his 2pm-10.30pm shift. Luckily this time we hit absolutely no traffic, it was smooth sailing all the way down and back as well.

We arrived at 8am sharp and the same security guard was there from the day before. He said, "I remember you! You're here to get your certificate!" which was reassuring -- they didn't give us anything at all on Monday afternoon before we left, so we were worried we wouldn't be let in without an appointment notice. Mark deliberately wore the same shirt to make sure they recognized him. Anyway, as soon as we got through security, the man from the day before (not the rude woman, thankfully) was waiting for us, with Mark's naturalization certificate in hand. He was very nice and (in a friendly way) reminded Mark to sign this one in black ink. He also said, "This is saving you around $400 so be careful!" It took all of 30 seconds. We were literally back at our car by 8.05am -- a two-hour drive for something taking under a minute. And then we had to drive all the way home!

To celebrate, we went to I-Hop for breakfast, in true American style. Mark still hasn't signed his new certificate yet -- I think he just wants to make sure it is done perfectly correctly, with no distractions. And no blue ink.

~ Jenney (& Mark)


TO SUM UP (for those who didn't want to read the long slog):
We (just barely) got to Norfolk on time for Mark's citizenship interview. Mark read and answered all 10 citizenship test questions correctly, and was approved -- best of all, the oath ceremony was held that afternoon! He and the other new USCs were instructed by the USCIS lady running the ceremony to sign their naturalization certificates using the pens available at the front desks in the waiting room. Mark ended up signing his certificate with the only blue ink pen there (which was black on the outside and permanently attached to the desk); he immediately realized that by doing so, his certificate was null and void. It HAS to be signed in black ink.

We told the USCIS ceremony lady what had happened, and she scolded Mark, saying he shouldn't have assumed that all the pens were black. We feel that she should've warned everyone that one or more of the pens may be blue; he was just following her instructions after all and had no reason to think that one of the pens wasn't black. (At least one other person also signed his certificate with the same pen, but unfortunately left the USCIS office before we could warn him about this.)

Luckily, the USCIS people agreed to create a new naturalization certificate for Mark at no charge. Normally he'd have to file an N-600, pay a $460 fee, and wait nearly a year to get his replacement certificate, so this was a big deal and huge relief. The caveat was that we'd have to return the next day (today) to pick it up. We left Richmond this morning at 6am, got to Norfolk at 8am, and were back on the road again at 8.05am. Mark's got his new naturalization certificate now and is a new US citizen!!!!

You can see our photos from the day in our BE Photo Gallery.

Bob

Hey congrats

Noorah101

Woo hoo!! Congratulations!!!

MsElui

congrats!

LadyKat1974

CONGRATULATIONS

Ray

Very good report .. I expected no less ...Congrats Mark ...

Now go to my profile ..options
and put a link to the pics under your name ..

ian-mstm

Congratulations to you both!

Ian

meauxna

I've been looking for this post all day!



Welcome, Citizen Mark!!!
Congratulations to both of you on your successful immigration journey!

I baked you a cake.
(this is an actual, official citizenship cake)


xxx and all best wishes!

Rete

Congratulations!

Poppy girl

Congrats

I have just over a year to go, better start reading up only knew 2 answers

AlanR

Well done! I've followed all your trails and tribulations! Fantastic to have the oath ceremony on the same day (he whines having being approved a month ago and still no date...!).
I thought that the reason you didn't post last night was the massive celebration!
And well done again!

Dan725

Yay, great news - fantastic!!

Very bizarre business about the black/blue ink thing though. No-one told me that. Just checked; luckily I did sign mine in black with my finest 99c bic biro.

And there was no mention of that at my ceremony - he did bang on about signing your full name, not your usual signature - but did caveat that with if you don't sign it exactly just so, it really won't matter, so long as you DO sign. So I find that whole ink thing very very odd, and I really can't see how that would void it.

But to be expected I guess - different rules for different places and different Immigration Officers - USCIS, inconsistent right till the end

Just Jenney

Thanks, everyone! Yeah, I didn't post last night because 1) I was really, REALLY tired; 2) I was feeling pretty bummed by what happened; and 3) it made sense to just wait until it was all done before posting about it. Sorry for leaving anyone in suspense!

(I just read back over my OP and see just how ridiculously long it is. I'm not very good with writing succinctly. But at least I wrote up a quick summary so that should count for something. )

Weird about the blue/black ink thing, isn't it? Weird, and irritating. It wasn't until after I started this thread did it occur to me that I have never, ever read about someone else having the same problem. Six years of reading these forums, and I've never heard of it. I can't believe that every single naturalization certificate out there has been signed in black ink. And I can't believe that the certificates signed in blue ink haven't been accepted as appropriate proof of citizenship. I'd be curious to know what Mr. F has to say about it (if anything).

In Mark's case, it doesn't matter now... Mark and I have done a fair amount of bitching (and feeling really crappy) about what happened over the past 24 hours so it's best to just let it go. But hopefully this will be a wake-up call for other people going through this process.

LESSON LEARNED: Sign your naturalization certificate in BLACK INK!

MEAUNXA!!! Is that really a cake? For Mark!?! And you baked and decorated it yourself!?! That is SO SWEET!!! (No pun intended!) Honestly, you're making me look bad -- all I did was take him to I-Hop for breakfast!!! Wow, that was really so nice and thoughtful of you -- I'm speechless! Mark's still at work (poor guy; it's been a very long couple of days for him) but I can't wait to show this to him when he gets home.

Just out of curiosity -- what kind of cake is it?

~ Jenney

p.s. The link to my photo gallery is now under my profile name, for easy access! LOL

fatbrit

Why didn't you just book into a motel for the night? Would've been a lot easier than all that driving!

janadeen

Congrats, congrats, congrats!!!