Making a Murderer
 

Many seen this Netflix doc yet?
While the main story asks plenty of questions, it is the story of the nephew that is flabbergasting. Convicted for murder with from what the docs shows us, zero evidence and no sign of a retrial. Just a coerced confession from a intellectually challenged teen. Now it seems to me, to now be common knowledge that confessions are unreliable, so how this even got to trial is a mystery to me. But all of the professionals involved seem to have little sens of what it might mean to act professionally. Even his own lawyer was working against him.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Haven't seen this one, but have watched other programs on other people who have been convicted and later found to not have done it, and evidence manipulated and confessions coerced and such.

And your doubly up the creek if you can't afford a super powerful, well respected and pricey attorney.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

No, I haven't seen it but it reminds me of the West Memphis Three. Long after EVERYBODY knew they were innocent, they were still sitting in prison.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I'm watching it, having to ration it out otherwise I'll binge watch it all and just explode with rage. Already had Mr Sarah shouting at the TV and ranting about power-mad cops.

The trust this country has in the PD and the justice system is completely crumbling and this doc series is another bunch of nails in the coffin. be interesting to see how, or if it gets worse or better.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I just saw the trailer, may have to sign up for Netflix again and probably a VPN service to watch it, but looks interesting and worth watching.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

This was unbelievable. It just floored me. Just the actions of the officers, the DA,s and the sheriff when being questioned, watching them squirm just proved they were lying.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I'm on episode 6 and I have steam coming out of my ears. :mad:

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I watched this show and was outraged at how unfair the criminal justice system could be but then I read an article that said the show left out crucial evidence that painted Stephen Avery in a bad light and I felt conned. Avery had apparently called Teresa 3 times that day and they had found his sweat on the hood of her car. His old prison cell mate also said that Avery talked about raping women and how he was going to set up a torture chamber. Now I don't know what to believe anymore.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Yeah. Unlike the "Paradise Lost" / West Memphis 3 coverage which was extremely thorough, it seems like there was a fair amount left out of this documentary. Based on a very summary review of the evidence, to me it seems at the very least plausible that both Avery was guilty in killing Halbach and that the police tried to frame him. To me it's clear that the picture is certainly more nuanced than the one painted in the documentary. Avery is at best a seriously creepy dude but as far as I know that's not a jailable offense... Of course, I wasn't on the jury, so my opinion is likely invalid.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Radio Lab, interview with the original victim and her response to finding out Avery had spent 18 years in gaol, based on her mistaken eye witness.
Reasonable Doubt - Radiolab

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Not judging but the whole family obviously lack any long term education and all appear to have low IQ's. This doesn't help them, which is very unfair.

I just cannot believe they had so many appeals turned down, especially when there was such a lack of physical evidence.

The only good thing to come out of it was the downfall of the creepy DA (that sounded like a woman)

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I started watching this with my wife on Sunday, just saw episode 10 last night. I spent half the time just staring open mouthed at the TV. I honestly didn't think before I started it that it would affect me that much but my wife (who started it before me) seemed to be really into it, so I gave it a go.

We have two men who were chewed up and spat out by a system that had decided they were guilty even before they set foot in court; one who has spent almost half his life in prison for at least one, but I feel two crimes he didn't commit and a boy of 16 who won't get out until his 50s, who I am certain had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder at all.

So many inconsistencies, I can't believe seven of those jurors were able to be strongarmed into changing their minds by the others.

Sorry, bit of a rant, but that show pissed me off.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I'm just starting episode 5 after seeing this thread and a thread on another forum I use. All I can say is WTF?!?!?!?!

Re: Making a Murderer
 

You find yourself just wanting to yell at the TV, don't you?

Re: Making a Murderer
 

It's actually pretty scary stuff that what seems to be a complete frame job can actually happen.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Small town + disliked family + winnable multi million dollar lawsuit for past police incompetence = you're ****ed, mate :(

Re: Making a Murderer
 

No one really knows how many innocent people have been incarcerated.


Home — The Innocence Project

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I have watched the first 4 hours of this but really can't bring myself to watch another 6 hours. It is soooo slooowww. The first 4 hours could have easily been squeezed into 1 hour if they would stick to the facts and leave out all of the 'filler' material.
A five minute clip of a bond hearing consisted of 4:30 of extended, silent shots of various people followed by 30 seconds of the judge offering his decision. There are also many recorded phone conversations which added little, if anything, to the case.

So, I reverted to the google (and there's a lot of stuff out there).

While I accept the original rape conviction was a serious miscarriage of justice, I'm not convinced, from the evidence from the documentary, that he is innocent of the murder.

Now I know that he is innocent until proven guilty so the reasonable doubt means he should be acquitted.

However, reading information elsewhere, there is a lot of strong evidence that the documentary conveniently left out which IMHO proves his guilt.

A comment from the documentary makers was "we can't possibly include every detail". Well, apparently, they can't include important details but CAN include several hours of "filler" material.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

For those who watched the program and are interested in hearing the evidence that was left out, iHeart radio has made some podcasts.

http://www.iheart.com/show/139-Rebut...&cid=hyperlink

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I am watching a show about this case right now.... The show is called I didn't do it, and it profiles various cases where people have been convicted and later found to be innocent and the trials and troubles it takes to get judges and the system to listen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Elkins

Was convicted of murder of his mother in law and rape and assault of his niece.

He was convicted originally solely on testimony of the 6 year old, who states prosecutors pressured her to say he did it.

First appealed denied.

Family raised the funds to have DNA from the scene tested (apparently the police didn't?) and the DNA at the scene did not match, appealed on that, and judge denied the appeal.

His wife at the time conducted an investigation on her own and identified Earl Mann the neighbor of the lady killed, a convicted sex offender who was serving time at the same prison. Elkin's the man convicted in error was able to collect a cigarette butt from Earl Mann and had it DNA tested.

DNA from Earl Mann matched the DNA found at the scene.


But even after the DNA excluded Elkins, the DA still refused to dismiss the charges, and Earl Mann was arrested on unrelated charges and asked the arresting officer why he had not be charged for the murder of the lady who was killed yet. The arresting officer forwarded that statement to the detectives who forwarded it to the DA, but the DA failed to disclose that statement to the defense.



I am starting to think the system is more corrupt then we want to think.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I think discussing guilt/non guilt is missing the point of the documentary, which is more concerned by the problems of the process. (Though I may have been unduly influenced by the film makers in having that view)

Re: Making a Murderer
 

That's absolutely the point of the documentary. From how he should never have been arrested for the initial sexual assault in the 80s, all the way to the final conviction for a murder that his connection to was dodgy at best.

Even if he did do it, there was reasonable doubt. If there is reasonable doubt in a case, and this one was dripping with it, the jury should not convict, as seven of the twelve initially leaned in the first vote. Never mind the absolute shambles that was Brendan Dassey's trial. That poor boy would have admitted to killing JFK, Jimmy Hoffa and Shergar if he only thought he'd be allowed to go back to school to finish his project.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Another good one is "The Staircase"

'The Staircase' should be your next 'Making A Murderer' obsession

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Making a murderer is a complete master piece. Just in the middle and i am totally glued to it.
**********Spoiler Alert**********
hahah just kidding

Re: Making a Murderer
 

This video is well worth watching. I've sent it around to family and friends.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

The scary thing is that a similar thing happened to me and my wife by a small town sheriff. We were accused of a felony for raising a credit card dispute and ended up having to pay the sheriff money. The attorneys we saw just said the police can do what they like. We have never visited that city again since. There is no one overlooking the police in this country.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

It's insane, isn't it? We have been trying to get our son to watch this show, particularly the treatment of Brendan Dassey, just so he knows exactly the kind of shit he can get landed in if the police take any kind of a dislike to him.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I finished the show last night and was dissapointed with the ending. The system seems to be too full of egotistical, power happy uneducated people. There is no one to complain to about police misconduct

Re: Making a Murderer
 

It does.

His lawyers were somewhat of a breath of fresh air. That one guy was having something of an existential crisis at the end though, it was quite eye opening to see how involved they became in that case as it went on.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

One good bit of advice several attorneys have given me is most Judges rule in favor of pretty women no matter who is right or wrong. So it's not even worth trying in those cases. I think in this case the decision had been made even before the trial that the family was not liked.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

I would tend to agree. The fact that they didn't seem to investigate either the ex-boyfriend or the roommate, even though most of the time a murderer was known to the victim personally, tends to back this up as well.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Latest update Is this the 'secret weapon' that could acquit Steven Avery of Making a Murderer? | Daily Mail Online

Re: Making a Murderer
 

New technology was always going to come into play.

That Kathleen Zellner has a hell of a record. 16/16 acquittals I think it was. It'll be interesting to see what happens here. If he does get acquitted, I hope he gets the hell out of Manitowoc, for his own sake.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Here is another young kid that spent 15 hours being interrogated (interviewed) without a parent or lawyer present.
15 hours: Inside the interrogation of Willamette football player Beau Smith | KGW.com

I really hope my kid never ends up in this situation. in this day and age they should not have to rely so much on confessions.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

What happens when everywhere starts reviewing convictions as well as around Huston, Texas?
Why Harris County, Texas, leads the US in exonerations - BBC News

Plea deals, innocent people plea guilty, lab work gets pushed down to the bottom of the pile, and the innocent stay in gaol.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

and it could happen to anyone, that's why you need to know a good lawyer before you need a lawyer.

Re: Making a Murderer
 

New update Making a Murderer's Steven Avery given 'freedom' court date as judge cracks down on prosecutor - Mirror Online

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Don't talk to agents of the state is good advice. They lie liel lie lie lie. There are good videos on FlexYourRights to show you teens. It's still tough because they lie and manipulate while most people are forthright and not used to denying a request to an authority

Edited: I see Golden Barrow already posted!

Re: Making a Murderer
 

Looks like Dassey is getting released
Brendan Dassey's Conviction Overturned After 'Making A Murderer' Tells His Story