Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
#1
Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
As you all probably know by this time, Jonathan Gruber is an economist at MIT and was one of the architects of both the Massachusetts health law in 2006 and the Patient Protection and Affordable Health Care Act - more popularly/unpopularly known as "ObamaCare."
He is now embroiled in controversy for remarks he made in September 2013 at a health care conference at the University of Pennsylvania. Those comments included, inter alia - and here I am not quoting directly:
1. Lack of transparency in the run-up to the creation of the program was a huge political advantage;
2. That he and the other drafters realized that if the American public knew that the program was really one where healthy people would pay for it and that sick people and non-contributors would benefit from it would never pass (i.e. that it was simply a wealth transfer program);
3. That the so-called "Cadillac Tax" on overly generous health plans could not be sold to the public as a tax to be paid by the beneficiaries of those plans. Kerry then suggested that it be sold as a tax on the companies that provided those plans. They decided to do it that way because they knew that the American voters are too stupid and economically illiterate to know that it was one and the same thing;
4. That ObamaCare was deliberately written as densely and opaquely as possible so that most people would not be able to see what was really in it, because if they did, it would never pass.
The question before the house is, setting aside the "fog of controversy" (to quote my favourite screwball Congressional representative"), is whether Gruber is correct, i.e. that the American voters are both stupid and economically illiterate?
A tangential question would be whether you believe the main stream media aided and abetted Gruber and the program's proponents by pulling the wool over the stupid and economically illiterate voters by failing to set the economic record straight during the selling of the program. Or were they perhaps as stupid and economically illiterate as their readers and viewers?
A final question, since I've lived most of my life most here in the Second World, how does the NHS compare with your understanding of ObamaCare? I've always enjoyed superb health care with the Blues, so am not familiar with NHS's pros and cons.
He is now embroiled in controversy for remarks he made in September 2013 at a health care conference at the University of Pennsylvania. Those comments included, inter alia - and here I am not quoting directly:
1. Lack of transparency in the run-up to the creation of the program was a huge political advantage;
2. That he and the other drafters realized that if the American public knew that the program was really one where healthy people would pay for it and that sick people and non-contributors would benefit from it would never pass (i.e. that it was simply a wealth transfer program);
3. That the so-called "Cadillac Tax" on overly generous health plans could not be sold to the public as a tax to be paid by the beneficiaries of those plans. Kerry then suggested that it be sold as a tax on the companies that provided those plans. They decided to do it that way because they knew that the American voters are too stupid and economically illiterate to know that it was one and the same thing;
4. That ObamaCare was deliberately written as densely and opaquely as possible so that most people would not be able to see what was really in it, because if they did, it would never pass.
The question before the house is, setting aside the "fog of controversy" (to quote my favourite screwball Congressional representative"), is whether Gruber is correct, i.e. that the American voters are both stupid and economically illiterate?
A tangential question would be whether you believe the main stream media aided and abetted Gruber and the program's proponents by pulling the wool over the stupid and economically illiterate voters by failing to set the economic record straight during the selling of the program. Or were they perhaps as stupid and economically illiterate as their readers and viewers?
A final question, since I've lived most of my life most here in the Second World, how does the NHS compare with your understanding of ObamaCare? I've always enjoyed superb health care with the Blues, so am not familiar with NHS's pros and cons.
Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Nov 13th 2014 at 10:22 pm.
#3
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
Yes, we should all be trembling in fear when Rush Limbaugh and FOX News are upset.
If you haven't figured out that all health insurance policies operate on that principle, then you're even more dumb than Gruber thinks that you are.
That he and the other drafters realized that if the American public knew that the program was really one where healthy people would pay for it and that sick people and non-contributors would benefit from it would never pass (i.e. that it was simply a wealth transfer program)
#4
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
The old system wanted just healthy people.
#5
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
Storm in a teacup but FOX will love it...with a straight face, and it will keep Limbaugh in narcotics...
#9
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
Probably.
Most voters do whatever their favorite channel or newspaper tells them to. See for example "It was the Sun what won it".
Russia's a little different. When you get to the voting booth a nice strong man shows you inside then closes the curtain behind you. Inside the booth you find a bowl of feathers for one candidate and a bowl of ball bearings for the other candidate and a big metal box into which you drop your selection. Voting is quite secret.
Most voters do whatever their favorite channel or newspaper tells them to. See for example "It was the Sun what won it".
Russia's a little different. When you get to the voting booth a nice strong man shows you inside then closes the curtain behind you. Inside the booth you find a bowl of feathers for one candidate and a bowl of ball bearings for the other candidate and a big metal box into which you drop your selection. Voting is quite secret.
#10
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
Russia's a little different. When you get to the voting booth a nice strong man shows you inside then closes the curtain behind you. Inside the booth you find a bowl of feathers for one candidate and a bowl of ball bearings for the other candidate and a big metal box into which you drop your selection. Voting is quite secret.
#11
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
I assume you're speaking of others. Having been an employee of Liberty Mutual and a lawyer for many years since that time, I am not unfamiliar with the principles behind insurance.
#13
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"
"Keep your government hands off my Medicare"
Yeh, at least some American voters are stupid.
Yeh, at least some American voters are stupid.
#14
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Jonathan Gruber and "Stupid American Voters"