How long until the apocalypse?
 

Watching Trump yesterday with his cabinet was a vomit swallowing moment. I'm sure the apocalypse can't be far behind.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

"The Dear Cheeto Kim il Trump"

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

The apocalypse? What apocalypse? That's just something made up by the lying, unpatriotic media.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Well the shooting in Virginia this morning had all the hallmarks of being a harbinger of the apocalypse.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

After seeing that cringe-fest, I personally welcome the apocalypse. Or, at the very least, I hope aliens come to save us.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I thought that OJT might save him, seems I was very wrong.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Aliens will come soon. I am in daily contact with a race of intelligent beings in the constellation of Alpha Centauri. In the interim I need some US$ to finance my work. Kindly oblige and save us all !

(Well it is no crazier than those ads on TV to sponsor a snow-leopard, or save the starving orphans in Africa !)

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I apologize, this is purely a reflex action but Alpha Centauri is a star, not a constellation :p

(sorry)

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I see Trump either being impeached and forced to step down on soundly defeated in 2020.
He will appear daily on Fox News on the "Trump Hour" and tell everybody, every freakin day how it was everybody elses fault that he couldn't make America great again

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Depends on how you define apocalypse. If the apocalypse were to involve the United States breaking up into two or three countries, with the Blue States on one side and the Red States on the other, my guess is 5 - 10 years, given the unbridgeable polarization in this country. I see the west coast states seceding first, the Northeast states second, and Illinois third. Some of them might petition to join Canada, which would be a good move for Washington State and New England, if the Canadians would have them.

Talk about it being impossible because of the result of the War of Northern Aggression (as the Southerners like to style it) is just talk. No one is going to enter into a civil war to preserve today's "union." If Cali were to go now, a majority of Americans would probably wish them well in their new country. (Calexit?)

Note: the next huge political battle will be whether Congress will admit Puerto Rico as the next State. PR's two senators would flip the Senate to the Democrats; so will the Republicans weather the "racism" charge and not commit political suicide?

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

There are secessionists in this state but California's not going anywhere and if it were put to a vote the "nay's" would be overwhelming in number.

As for some States joining Canada wont happen either. Whose going to turn in their firearms and acknowledge the British Monarchy as head of State ? :lol:

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Both good points. It's interesting how different sides in an argument (or war) view things. In the US at the end of the Revolutionary War, those who supported the King were ultimately forced to either align with the new victors or were forced to leave the US. Many of those who would not align fled north to (what is now) Canada - and became known as United Empire Loyalists. To this day in Canada, it is a matter of great pride and distinction to have had an ancestor who was a United Empire Loyalist... even though, in the US, those same people were called traitors!

Ian

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

You may well be right about California, but consider: your Governor flies to China to negotiate with them to continue to keep Cali in the Paris Accord, your largest cities are all Sanctuary Cities and Cali may become a sanctuary state. It appears to non-Californians as though it is quietly, gradually, seceding now.

The formal secession movement appears to be on hold at this time, but if the Left doesn't triumph in the 2018 mid-term elections and get rid of Trump, it will probably revive and the talk would then really be about a negotiated and amicable exit, with a further split of California into California and Jefferson. The strongest opponent of Calexit would be the national Democratic Party. The state party might be tempted, as it would then rule over an independent California with an iron fist. Venezuela redux.

The question of whether certain New England states would turn in their firearms if, on balance, merging with Canada would seem preferable to remaining in a Republican-dominated - read "far right" - United State (which it would be if Cali exited) may not be as settled as you might think. Again, we are imagining an apocalypse here.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Quebec has, from time to time, had a referendum vote to secede from Canada. At one point (in the early 1980s IIRC) the Supreme Court of Canada said Quebec could secede but only if they paid off their share of the national debt prior to leaving. Result = Quebec is still part of Canada.

Ian

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

That might deter California too. Forget Cali's share of the national debt, imagine just the problem of suddenly having to pay for continuation of Social Security and Medicare benefits for millions of Californians. They're in enough trouble with their state employees' pension and health funds as it is ($366 billion unfunded liability as of 2014). Nevertheless, politics frequently *trumps* reality in this country, so anything is possible.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I see Trump as just a passing malignancy. His presidency is already an utter disaster. Trump will in no way be able to change the course of America permanently. He'll be out in 2020 without a doubt,

California has always been the place of choice for radicals with whacky ideas but there's no chance it will secede. It's armaments industry alone account for a huge chunk of it's wealth. The demographic make up is presently at 51 percent non white ethnicities of all groups. This is a group that would not favour separation from the rest of America. As for whites, a very sizeable amount who are politically liberal, well educated, reasonably affluent or wealthy neither would they be stupid enough to vote for secession. Governor Brown may differ from Trump on just about everything but he's certainly no separatist.
California will just grit it's teeth knowing that someday all this will pass.

I cant imagine our New England brothers having the slightest inclination to join Canada. The sense of history, of the revolution, the Founding Fathers and the Constitution is far too strongly ingrained in them. I couldn't see them exchanging that for a Parliamentary system of government, the loss of rights under the Constitution especially that sacred Second Amendment. There's nothing wrong with Canada and it's system of government of course but it's just too different for millions of people to adapt to.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Benedict Arnold is also something of a hero up there I've heard

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I think that the secession of any State in the Union would have to meet with the approval of 38 other States to pass. Clearly that's not a possibilty

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

"How long before the apocalypse?"

Correction: That should read:

How long since the apocalypse?

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Looking at how much my two investment accounts with J P Morgan Chase have increased in value since Trump was elected, he can keep on doing whatever it is he is doing.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

The 38 state thing is the number required to amend the Constitution in a constitutional convention (3/4ths of the states). If a constitutional convention, were called to provide for secession, it would probably be in the context of the United States facing imminent break-up and the need would be for an orderly process for dissolution. An orderly apocalypse?:lol:

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

There should be an option that says "Can't come soon enough"

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Well it's pretty obvious that secession will never be in the cards. Who wants to go to all the trouble of having checkpoints, passport control, tariff and trade agreements to negotiate, A gigantic headache that would make no sense. California is intertwined with the rest of the union. Many wrote off the United Sates as a failure during the civil war. The Vietnam war tore the country apart. It will take more than a tweet addict with fake hair dyed platinum blond and the bullshit of a used car salesman to bring this country to the point of a break up

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Let's hope you're right. As for Trump, "This too, shall pass."

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I think if Puerto Rico were to be added as a state, the compromise would be to add Guam at the same time, so both parties would gain.

Considering the gulf in the culture/political polarization in the US even before Trump elected, I could easily see California or good portion of it deciding to secede in 5 to 15 years, and maybe also agreeing for joint-rule California and Mexico over a portion as well.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

"All things must pass"

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I once passed a kidney stone! US politics is a lot like that.

Ian

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

My quote was a reference to Yolanda Adams' song; and was meant to bring comfort to those
of our brethren who are having such a difficult time living with our current President.

"This Too Shall Pass"

In the middle of the turbulence surrounding you
These trying times are so hard to endure
In the middle of what seems to be your darkest hour
Hold fast your heart and be assured

[CHORUS:]
This too shall pass
Like every night that's come before it
He'll never give you more than you can bear
This too shall pass
So in this thought you'd be comforted
For it's in His Hands
This too shall pass

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Exactly. For all the silicon valley businesses etc. California's financial obligations top all forseeable resources.Shut down the 32 military bases and the huge number of high tech supporting jobs....

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

We also provide considerable revenue to States like West Virginia whose government seem to be completely unable to diversify their economy beyond coal mining.

Same goes for Oregon. Lumber, lumber and more lumber. How would their economy fare if the present California building boom suddenly went the way it did in 2008?
As California goes so does Oregon.

The fact that Oregon gas stations still have employees to pump gas indicates that the State has a long way to go in diversifying and creating meaningful jobs for it's workforce

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I forget reason why, but I thought there was another reason Oregon required someone be on hand to pump gas than to provide jobs. Maybe someone knows ?

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Kind of like Brexit yet millions voted for it. Judging from many comments on BE threads , seems there are people in California who would be quite happy to not be in same nation as some other states. And vice versa.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Good point, Has there been any articles showing how much California receives/pays in terms of federal funds ?

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

it's a "make work" thing. Even a trained monkey would know how operate a modern gas pump.

The lack of diversity in Oregon's industrial base is probably because that State has a very aggressive environmental protection movement at work.

The "spotted owl" issue almost brought the State's logging industry to a near halt a few years ago

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

The Republicans are generally the ones with the whacko ideas in this State. There's the "State of Jefferson" idea that's been floating around for some time, Another Republican more recently tried to get a proposition on the ballot to split the State into six new States. His reason? The State's population had become too large to be governed effectively from Sacramento alone :lol: :lol:

Fortunately the GOP have very limited political power in this State

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Should Californians decide to secede, the Red counties will definitely pull a West Virginia and secede from California and form the great state of Jefferson. I still think if California were to go the secession route, it would be a matter of negotiation, much like Brexit, not a civil war.

If Calexit succeeds, California would then become a true laboratory to prove whether or not "progressive" politics can create a sustainable economic model and improve the quality of life of its citizens. However, I think most of the Silicon Valley enterprises would leave within 2 or 3 years and prove just how fragile Cali's economy really is.

As for the GOP voters, I foresee that they would be leaving Cali en masse, and moving into the US, so Cali would soon become an authoritarian one-party state with all the advantages of a system that has no credible opposition party.

[Fortunately? Guess again.] The Left in California is already trying to shut down free speech with its masked, black-shirted Antifa thugs. Imagine them becoming incorporated into California's new internal security apparatus. It would be East Germany all over again.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

2/10 for being mildly amusing trolling...

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Just out of curiosity, is Sacramento governing the state effectively ?

I remember back in the 80's there was a discussion of splitting the state into three - north, south and central.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

I agree in that scenario free speech would probably become curtailed in practice. On the other hand I cant imagine enterprises in Silicon Valley leaving, Silicon Valley has shown itself quote able to retain its dominance and grow. Silicon Valley, tourism, film industry, agriculture- California surely could prosper as an independent or semi-independent state.

Re: How long until the apocalypse?
 

Oh my you have a very outdated view of Oregon. Timber is nearly dead, the two largest employers in the state are Nike and Intel. Don't take my word for it use Google.