germanybyebye

Hello,

So gald that I have stumbled across this forum as it seems that it can provide some sort of therapeutical input to the dilema that crept up on me out of the blue summer 2008.

I have been in Germany for 20 years now and after all the hard work to become settled, integrated I have spent the last 5 months working myslef into a bit of a turmoil about whether I should get back to UK before this window of opportunity in terms of heart and mind comes around again.

Of course, can't just pack my rucksack and hop onto the next ferry towards the white cliffs, as my lovely German wife and 2 children (son 15 and daughter 12), hold some key pieces of the puzzel in their hand

During the last 5 months have done my research about the school system and have a plan for my son who is dying to come to UK. My daughter should be ok as she has some time before GSCE starts. They both speak good English at home through me and the German schools make it mandatory as first foreign language from year 3, plus they watch English TV via free sat channels. I am working on some Job offers however the drop in the Pound makes aim to try and get as close as possible to same standard of living we have here an added last minute challenge. My wife needs some more convincing but I hope that if I can present her with a good deal she would be willing to give it a try.

I could go on an on but I suppose like others before me, this is just an attempt to exchange ideas, thoughts and experiences of those that have chatered similar foggy waters...

Hope to make friends out there willing to help.

Kindest regards

Peter

ann m

Welcome to BE.

Wow! That sure is some turmoil to sort through.

First off, is it just you that has the yearning to go to the UK? You say your wife still needs a little convincing. What is your driving reason for a move?

I can't even begin to express the correct words in relation to your son, but will touch on practicalities - as in what sort of time frame are you working with? Presumably, as you have been in Germany for so long, and your wife is German, she may have a lot of family and friends for support around her that may prove crucial further down the line. I'm guessing you do too, having been established there for so long?

It sounds so blunt in writing, but if you are looking a months, or years, or ten years, it will potentially alter how you view the next chapter for all of you.

And you say you have researched a plan for your son. Is there decent support available for you all?

How do your daughter and son feel about such a move, and schooling, etc?

Will your wife want or need to work?

I'm not helping at all really Just bouncing some ideas around so we can all welcome you, get to know your circs better and chip in with our tuppence worth in due course !

penguinsix

The one thing I think you should raise from the get go is the 'what if' scenarios with your wife. What if she hates it. What if she can't stand it. What if?? Sure she's probably been many times, but as you know visiting is never the same as living in a place, and the last thing you want is for her to be 'supportive of your wishes' until a few months after you arrive and she does a complete 180 (and believe me, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened to an expat).

Anyway, more of a question than an answer. I think you'll find a lot of bits of advice searching through this board and feel free to ask specifics as they arise.

JAJ

No-one on an online forum can tell you what to do, but it does seem that the standard of living and quality of life are higher in Germany than in Britain. You will have to do your own assessment. Also, the German economy appears to be a lot stronger than the British economy (hence the drop in the value of the pound).

Do you have German citizenship? If not, you should perhaps look into getting this as with mass unemployment likely in many European countries, there is no guarantee that EU free movement of labour will continue the way it is now. Also, since not so long ago, if you're from another EU state you can become a German citizen and keep your existing citizenship (if that country allows it).

Your children are (legally) dual citizens already as long as you were born in Britain.

germanybyebye

Hi,

and thanks for your reply. Was not expecting but hopeful that someone would pay attention

Well like the title says I am the one that's been hit by the the bolt and find myself yearning. It is still hard to put into words what the real drivers are.
On the surface (inspite of the fact that I have lived here so long), words, like cultural difference, never seeing myself becoming fully assimilated, could never see myself giving up my British citzenship to become a German citizen.
The list of words grows day by day, but I feel a bit guilty because up until recently I was accepting of the circumstances. At one stage about 4 years I decided to stop harbouring the thought of going back to England you know, stop fooling myself, and get on with your life and try to become more German. At that time it was a half hearted attempt to look at relocating back and I think I was not ready because I gave in easy to the excuse that cost of living is much higher in UK, house prices and quality compared to what we have here not so good.

I do not hate Germany, I think I have been lucky and on the whole the experience is been good. Yet here I am middle of the night working on this project.

Why? Things like, I do not identify fully myself with the culture, Germany is quite a homegeneous culture, I am a Londoner and grew up in a multicultural environment where even back in the mid-end 80s black and white started to exist on common ground. Although I have carved out a good life, I feel as though I will never be accepted, always the Englander, always a foreign person, yet tolerated. My children have cousins that they have not really got to know and my family is still a close nit unit.

Can't vote in General elections because you have to be a German citizen and hence relinquish my British citizenship... Naw sorry not ready for that move maybe never will be...

We do not have any of my wifes immediate German family close as they are from Hamburg which is about 3-4 hours away. We know many people where we live but have a less than a handful of close friends. This thought dawned on me recently that there are no real strong relationships that would be sadly missed. For sure we will miss people/friends and acquaintances and the certain familiaity of the small town we live in. But my wife and I alraedy know that we will never stay here forever. So either we go back up to her neck of the woods one day, or now I say why not UK? If it was up to me I would take the plunge in the summer of 2009. I think the window is right now, perhaps should have plunged in 4 years ago. However no regrets about that at all. Thats the way things worked out.

Anyway, it all hinges on whether I land a viable new Job and then we can start to pick up momentum. Would be great if this happens in next 12 months.

My wife is more pragmatic in the sense that we should accept things as they are and make the most of it. She is a bit concerned I think about the cultural difference and things like quality of life. I can understand this, I think I was thinking on the same lines until now myself. But something seems to be missing now....Like I said my son seems to be in a phase where he wants to try and live in the UK. He seems to like the mulicultural aspect. My daughter is still not yet too strongly settled that she is putting up resistance, she will go along perhapy not fully aware of what ls ahead with such a move. I see this as a positive thing and hence provides a window now while both the children are not consciously strongly attached to Germany.

I think I should stop for now, so many uncensored thoughts still keeping me awake.

Hopefully some of this makes sense.

Good night../ Morning

Peter

JAJ

Once again. You may be interested in the following:
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/nn_14...gkeit__en.html

Can I become a naturalized citizen without giving up my previous citizenship?
... candidates for naturalization from EU countries are subject to special rules.

Do special rules apply to EU citizens?
Given the aim of increasing European integration, the law contains special rules for EU citizens: They are not required to give up their previous citizenship in order to become naturalized German citizens, if their country of origin does not require Germans to give up their citizenship to become naturalized citizens of that country ...
... This rule currently applies to the following EU countries: Greece, the UK, Ireland, Portugal, Sweden, Finland, France, Belgium, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Malta and Cyprus. With regard to the Netherlands and Slovenia, it applies only to certain categories of persons.

This exemption may not always be in place, so if you are interested, look further into it.

As for the rest, you may find that Britain today isn't the country you left 20 years ago and "fitting in" may be just as difficult. It's known as "expat's curse."

ann m

Well - I've completely mis-read part of your post - I took it that your son was dying !!! (instead of 'dying to get back to the UK'). Talk about a dramatic response then Sooo glad I got that wrong

OK - so carry on everyone