Raj

D. Long wrote:

    >x-no-archive: yes
    >"Raj" wrote in message news:HYGW9.58628$1q3.8866@sccrnsc01...
    >
    >>what hnchoksi meant is that misc.immigration.* newsgroups are for
    >>discussion of immigration problems people are having.
    >>
    > Right. Lots of Americans are having problems with our government
    >allowing a million plus airliner immigrant parasites such as you
    >into this country.
I know you have problems, ranting about it on these groups is not going
to help! If majority of americans do feel immigration should not be
allowed, then please vote for politicians who think like you and bring
them to power so that they can reverse the immigration policy. Last I
heard, america was a democracy and majority vote does count.

For most part people on this group are looking for legal avenues, or
sometimes even technicalities in the law which is also legal, to immigrate.

I immigrated here legally because our government had a policy of open
immigration and they felt I would be an asset to this country. I was
also assured that this country does not discriminate between people for
any reason since it is against the law. By discriminating against me
since I am an airline immigrant and you are a descendant of a shoreline
immigrant, I wonder who is going against the law, you or me?

Carlos Solorzano

    > from his e-mail address, it sounds like the original poster is a java
    > expert and he probably hangs out on the java groups. if i post an
    > article about why .net is so good and why it should be used, etc. he
    > would probably give me a reply similar to what hnchoksi gave him.

Its a shame to see that a fellow java developer could be so close
minded!!!!!

Armed & Ready

"Raj" wrote in message
news:V1WW9.66498$kH3.9653@sccrnsc03...
    > D. Long wrote:
    > >x-no-archive: yes
    > >"Raj" wrote in message
news:HYGW9.58628$1q3.8866@sccrnsc01...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>what hnchoksi meant is that misc.immigration.* newsgroups are for
    > >>discussion of immigration problems people are having.
    > >>
    > >>
    > > Right. Lots of Americans are having problems with our government
    > >allowing a million plus airliner immigrant parasites such as you
    > >into this country.
    > >
    > I know you have problems, ranting about it on these groups is not going
    > to help! If majority of americans do feel immigration should not be
    > allowed, then please vote for politicians who think like you and bring
    > them to power so that they can reverse the immigration policy. Last I
    > heard, america was a democracy and majority vote does count.
    > For most part people on this group are looking for legal avenues, or
    > sometimes even technicalities in the law which is also legal, to
immigrate.
    > I immigrated here legally because our government had a policy of open
    > immigration and they felt I would be an asset to this country. I was
    > also assured that this country does not discriminate between people for
    > any reason since it is against the law. By discriminating against me
    > since I am an airline immigrant and you are a descendant of a shoreline
    > immigrant, I wonder who is going against the law, you or me?

Rants on these immigration groups is just getting started. We want all you
refugees and immigrants to know what is brewing under the surface in our
countries that TV does not show you - hatred and resentment of immigrants
and their imported culture of welfare fraud, cultural exclusiveness, and job
theft. Sure some immigrants may be good people, but we will fight to not
even risk it with them. We tried open immigration, and got September 11th,
so you can thank the Muslims for blanket anti-immigrant sentiments sweeping
western countries. This phenomena is not an illusion. My ancestors fought
for freedom in both World Wars, Vietnam, and Korea. They built the
railways, mined for steel, and helped build the infrastructure of this
country. 5 generations of my family poured their blood, sweat, and tears
into building the greatest nation on earth, and their legacy is being
polluted by third-world brownies looking for a welfare life for their
oversized families. The tide has turned, and we are not so hospitable any
more. Get used to this sentiment, as heinous as it sounds to you, because
this is just the beginning of the pendulum's swing back to normalcy. Any
assurances that you would not be discriminated upon, came from people who
make money doing their job of helping people migrate here. There will be
many of them unemployed soon. This land was designed and built by the white
man, and we will be reclaiming it. Get in our way at your own peril. In
America we have the right to bear arms specifically for this reason - to
purge the land of those with inadequate or threatening allegiances. Illegal
immigrants STAY AWAY. When the mobs find you, you'll wish you were back in
your rotten cave.

The Wizzard

your ancestors are immigrants my friend. In fact if you are a white north
american they are probably immigrants from my country without which yours
would not exist in it's present form. So quit whining, if none of us people
from Europe had ever bothered sailing across and colonising North America
there would be no USA there would be no Canada etc and the native americans
would probably have been much happier.

"Armed & Ready" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Raj" wrote in message
    > news:V1WW9.66498$kH3.9653@sccrnsc03...
    > > D. Long wrote:
    > >
    > > >x-no-archive: yes
    > > >"Raj" wrote in message
    > news:HYGW9.58628$1q3.8866@sccrnsc01...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >>what hnchoksi meant is that misc.immigration.* newsgroups are for
    > > >>discussion of immigration problems people are having.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > > Right. Lots of Americans are having problems with our government
    > > >allowing a million plus airliner immigrant parasites such as you
    > > >into this country.
    > > >
    > > I know you have problems, ranting about it on these groups is not going
    > > to help! If majority of americans do feel immigration should not be
    > > allowed, then please vote for politicians who think like you and bring
    > > them to power so that they can reverse the immigration policy. Last I
    > > heard, america was a democracy and majority vote does count.
    > >
    > > For most part people on this group are looking for legal avenues, or
    > > sometimes even technicalities in the law which is also legal, to
    > immigrate.
    > >
    > > I immigrated here legally because our government had a policy of open
    > > immigration and they felt I would be an asset to this country. I was
    > > also assured that this country does not discriminate between people for
    > > any reason since it is against the law. By discriminating against me
    > > since I am an airline immigrant and you are a descendant of a shoreline
    > > immigrant, I wonder who is going against the law, you or me?
    > >
    > Rants on these immigration groups is just getting started. We want all
you
    > refugees and immigrants to know what is brewing under the surface in our
    > countries that TV does not show you - hatred and resentment of immigrants
    > and their imported culture of welfare fraud, cultural exclusiveness, and
job
    > theft. Sure some immigrants may be good people, but we will fight to not
    > even risk it with them. We tried open immigration, and got September
11th,
    > so you can thank the Muslims for blanket anti-immigrant sentiments
sweeping
    > western countries. This phenomena is not an illusion. My ancestors
fought
    > for freedom in both World Wars, Vietnam, and Korea. They built the
    > railways, mined for steel, and helped build the infrastructure of this
    > country. 5 generations of my family poured their blood, sweat, and tears
    > into building the greatest nation on earth, and their legacy is being
    > polluted by third-world brownies looking for a welfare life for their
    > oversized families. The tide has turned, and we are not so hospitable any
    > more. Get used to this sentiment, as heinous as it sounds to you, because
    > this is just the beginning of the pendulum's swing back to normalcy. Any
    > assurances that you would not be discriminated upon, came from people who
    > make money doing their job of helping people migrate here. There will be
    > many of them unemployed soon. This land was designed and built by the
white
    > man, and we will be reclaiming it. Get in our way at your own peril. In
    > America we have the right to bear arms specifically for this reason - to
    > purge the land of those with inadequate or threatening allegiances.
Illegal
    > immigrants STAY AWAY. When the mobs find you, you'll wish you were back
in
    > your rotten cave.

.

I agree. Immediately crying RACIST to people trying to intelligently discuss
real problems america is facing is pathetic.


"Observer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > This newsgroup like others is open to everyone ideas and comments relating
    > to immigration to usa. Just you don't like one particular post and you
start
    > calling the poster a racist is uncalled for.
    > "Hnchoksi" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > >Subject: help protect american jobs
    > > >From: "tim" [email protected]
    > > >Date: 1/19/03 4:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
    > > >Message-id:
    > > >
    > > >Join H1BFraud to find out about all the latest abuses of the american
    > visa
    > > >system and how you can fight back.
    > > >
    > > >Remember, the job you save could be your own.
    > > >
    > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/h1bfraud
    > > >
    > >
    > > This group is for providing insight and opinion on making peoples'
    > > immigration problems easier, dimbulb! Not a forum for your rabble
    > rousing. Try
    > > taking that white hood and sheet off for a few days...

.

I agree that the best candidates should get the jobs. But H1B candidates are
merely hired because they are dirt cheap compared to americans. The average
H1B wage is 34,000 versus 69,000 for an american. Companies blindly choose
the cheaper candidate, regardless of the quality issue.

You can see this yourself by going to the LCA database.

Many of these projects fail because of these attitudes. I personally know of
8 projects where americans were replaced which ran into big problems.

A lot of us have found the following regarding foreign laborers.

Most are nice hard working people.

Some are very bright.

It seems a large number of them have no business in a position as a software
engineer. More than 40% are here with fase credentials.

The fight is not against people coming here trying to get a better life, it
is against ruthless corporations and politicians who are destroying the
american technology industry. It is against ruthless Indian placement
companies which forge candidate backgrounds, and try to sell electrical
engineers with no CS experience as highly skilled software professionals.

No, I will not get out of here. It's my company, my industry. We didn't
create it just to sit idly by and watch it get destroyed by greed.


"Shane" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > buddy, fraud is bad I agree. but listen, if I write better java code
    > than you are able to, nothing can protect you :-) just get out of here
    > "tim" wrote in message
news:...
    > > Join H1BFraud to find out about all the latest abuses of the american
visa
    > > system and how you can fight back.
    > >

Hnchoksi

    >Subject: Re: help protect american jobs
    >From: .
    >Date: 1/20/03 11:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
    >Message-id:
    >I agree. Immediately crying RACIST to people trying to intelligently discuss
    >real problems america is facing is pathetic.
    >"Observer" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> This newsgroup like others is open to everyone ideas and comments relating
    >> to immigration to usa. Just you don't like one particular post and you
    >start
    >> calling the poster a racist is uncalled for.
    >> "Hnchoksi" wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > >Subject: help protect american jobs
    >> > >From: "tim" [email protected]
    >> > >Date: 1/19/03 4:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
    >> > >Message-id:
    >> > >
    >> > >Join H1BFraud to find out about all the latest abuses of the american
    >> visa
    >> > >system and how you can fight back.
    >> > >
    >> > >Remember, the job you save could be your own.
    >> > >
    >> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/h1bfraud
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > This group is for providing insight and opinion on making peoples'
    >> > immigration problems easier, dimbulb! Not a forum for your rabble
    >> rousing. Try
    >> > taking that white hood and sheet off for a few days...

So why do you post fictitious stories about getting a false diploma, etc,
etc. You are nothing but a troll. I cut and paste your weasely post for all to
see:


Subject: Advice on H1b?
From: .
Date: 1/21/03 3:47 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


Hi,

I just paid for my false diploma in Chennai and the indian company said it
didn't matter that I had no computer experience. I only had a certificate
program and they said they needed a university degree. It cost 2000, which
is quite a lot. They said they will bench me in America until they can get
me work. I am only making $500/month while on bench and $1000/month if I get
the job. But because most is paid directly to my account in India I don't
have to pay any taxes and it will be waiting for me when I get home. I'm
really excited becase after a year in silicon valley I will be able to get
my house in India, completely paid for.

I've been reading more and more about how many american programmers are
losing their jobs and there is a lot of resentment against us.

The company said that they will even have another indian do the phone
interviews for me, so that it will be no problem. They currently have a
contract with IBM and I know for a fact that none of the people there from
my company had ever used a computer before, and they seem to be doing ok.

My question is this. Since I really don't have any computer knowledge at all
(just the books that my company gave me to read) should I still go to
america and work? Does anyone every figure out that we don't have any
experience as programmers, is programming really so easy?

- Rajesh

Cs

    > I agree that the best candidates should get the jobs. But H1B candidates
are
    > merely hired because they are dirt cheap compared to americans. The
average
    > H1B wage is 34,000 versus 69,000 for an american. Companies blindly choose
    > the cheaper candidate, regardless of the quality issue.

that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. At the company I work at now
and at the company I used to work, there was about 3 or 5 americans and one
or two H1Bs, programmers all. The H1Bs had the best salaries and the most
complicated/critical assigments, not because the company controls the visa,
but because the H1Bs usually had more knowledge/experience/brains than their
american counterparts. Maybe its just me but I have never seen H1Bs working
for less than their american coworkers or working more because the company
controls their visa, and I knows lots and lots of H1Bs.
What I also dont understand is the horror stories of how bad it is to work
with H1Bs, seriously, I have been in this country for over 5 years now, and
I have made most of my best friends at work, and I have worked at big
companies (500 + workers at my location) and small companies (3 or 4
workers), and I have actually gotten all my jobs because of professional
connections made at work, so I find it hard to believe that H1B people are
hated by everyone.
Also answering the idea of H1Bs working for less money here because its more
than they could ever make back at their countries, well...... back home I
have farms (yes plural), buildings (yes plural), family owned company, so
basically, I have it set, not to mention I have the necessary connections to
get some of the top jobs there. Why do I live and work here? well my country
and as many other countries aside from the US/Japan, etc, is not well
equiped for technology development, we do have the latest technology
available to us, but we dont produce any new technology, so since I am a
software developer, I choose to work in a country where I know I can make a
bigger difference. Also about H1Bs sending their money back to their home
countries, again, I might just be a wierd case, but my parents send me
between 15 and 20k a year to the US.
Well I hope my thoughts werent just all over the place, but I hope I got my
point across.

--CS

Shane

sounds like you hate not only H1B fraud, but also H1B program itself

1. if you hate H1B fraud
fraud hurt not only you, but other qualified H1B workers as well. I
don't think any one supports fraud. if you personally know someone, go
ahead report that person.

2. if you hate H1B program itself
you miss the big picture here, the fact is if there is no H1B program,
tech companies in US will try to move jobs to somewhere outside US,
because they are not stupid, if they are forced to hire people with
poor performance within US, they just won't do that. at that time, you
probably don't have many places to send your resume. Your assumption
that if no H1B program your jobs are protected is based on the total
number of jobs remains the same w or w/o H1B program. thats simply
won't be the same.

so, stop talking about things like 'the project is successful because
you are there'. the only way you can keep yourself empolyed is to have
more real education and more real experience.


wrote in message news:...
    > I agree that the best candidates should get the jobs. But H1B candidates are
    > merely hired because they are dirt cheap compared to americans. The average
    > H1B wage is 34,000 versus 69,000 for an american. Companies blindly choose
    > the cheaper candidate, regardless of the quality issue.
    >
    > You can see this yourself by going to the LCA database.
    >
    > Many of these projects fail because of these attitudes. I personally know of
    > 8 projects where americans were replaced which ran into big problems.
    >
    > A lot of us have found the following regarding foreign laborers.
    >
    > Most are nice hard working people.
    >
    > Some are very bright.
    >
    > It seems a large number of them have no business in a position as a software
    > engineer. More than 40% are here with fase credentials.
    >
    > The fight is not against people coming here trying to get a better life, it
    > is against ruthless corporations and politicians who are destroying the
    > american technology industry. It is against ruthless Indian placement
    > companies which forge candidate backgrounds, and try to sell electrical
    > engineers with no CS experience as highly skilled software professionals.
    >
    > No, I will not get out of here. It's my company, my industry. We didn't
    > create it just to sit idly by and watch it get destroyed by greed.
    >

Nicolas Garcia

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, news.verizon.net wrote:

    > BlueSky,
    > It appears as though you are new to the propaganda that you are reading. I
    > suggest that you take a look at the other side of the coin. Travel outside
    > of the U.S. Experience the culture of other places. I have done so and
    > grown to appreciate the many peoples of the world. I also recognize the
    > benefit of having those cultures melded into our society. Another benefit
    > of travelling (if you can call it a benefit), is that you may experience the
    > same attitudes that you have been reading about, only they may be directed
    > at you. You see, there are ignorant people the world over (note: ignorant
    > does not mean stupid; only uneducated). Many have an irrational fear of
    > people that are not exactly like themselves. However, the majority of
    > people abroad, as the majority of people in the U.S. do not harbor these
    > feelings. I do hope that you abandon this train of thought before you are
    > completely brainwashed.


for some people, this is the only reality they have, that of the
newsgroups. all they know is what they read here.






    > "BlueSky" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Tiny Human Ferret wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > > There are a lot of folks who post here who do skirt the edges of racism,
    > and
    > > > there are a lot of folks here who aren't even skirting the edges, but
    > who
    > > > are coming from the deepest mires of that particular swamp.
    > >
    > > Nobody who thinks rationally enough and deeply enough has ever
    > > accepted terms such as "racist" or a whole other family of terms as
    > > being rationally genuine. But these people kept quiet because they get
    > > beat down in society if they voice their concerns about using such
    > > words. The words simply have no genuine meaning. They are not applied
    > > symmetrically, their real use is to bludgeon opposition to political
    > > correctness on race matters.
    > >
    > > I always knew such terms were phoney baloney. But I never said
    > > anything for the above reasons. Also, frankly I was willing to let
    > > things ride as they were. I felt sort of sorry for "minorities."
    > > However even then I was rational enough and moral enough to at least
    > > admit to myself that probably real damage was being done to the whites
    > > in our schools.
    > >
    > > It wasn't till this Mexican flood into our country, combined with the
    > > in-your-face reproductive assault, that I changed. It was the straw
    > > that broke the camel's back. Rather I should say, it was the ton of
    > > bricks that broke a camel's back that was already pretty weak.
    > >
    > > Then as fate would have it, I heard about MacDonald's works - a state
    > > university professor at a reasonably good state university. I read. I
    > > read more. I studied. I thought about it. There were phases of rage,
    > > then calmness. And after the calmness I went back and questioned. "Is
    > > this true?" "Could it be false?" "Are there ways that I can check for
    > > reasonableness?" "What are the weaknesses here? Are there hiatuses?"
    > > And after further checking, for a while, the issues did not come out
    > > wanting.
    > >
    > > > We Centrists tend to disavow racist sentiment, and the hardcore racists
    > and
    > > > supremacists are probably the most damaging possible element to a cause
    > of
    > > > sensible facts-based Immigration Reform.
    > >
    > > The "damaging element" was really a hard consideration for me. And I
    > > still wonder about my more outspoken position that I have taken up.
    > > One big factor in my change was when I read how in the 1920s and
    > > afterwards, some people in congress tried to fight immigration. But
    > > they lived under the fear of being politically destroyed by being
    > > called racist (In those days it wasn't "racist" the fear label was
    > > "anti-semitic". Jewish immigrants and communism were somehow tied up
    > > in huge ways back then and I still am learning exactly what ws going
    > > on. Of course all this is cleansed from our history books or from any
    > > PBS or NPR presentation one will ever see). IMHO that fear destroyed
    > > these congress people's ability to mount a defense against the
    > > eventual open immigration borders that we have today.
    > >
    > > Therefore the struggle today cannot try to pussy foot around being
    > > called racist and the like. Being nice failed in the past and brought
    > > us the disaster we have today. Our only choice is to head into being
    > > called "racist" even though we don't how we can survive. It is like
    > > the soldiers in Private Ryan, landing on that beach (?NOrmandy - some
    > > history I know not at all). We are going to take terrible hits.
    > > Because we don't know yet how to avoid them. Or maybe we can't. But
    > > the alternative failed in the past.

D. Long

x-no-archive: yes
"Raj" wrote in message news:V1WW9.66498$kH3.9653@sccrnsc03...
    > D. Long wrote:
    > >x-no-archive: yes
    > >"Raj" wrote in message news:HYGW9.58628$1q3.8866@sccrnsc01...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>what hnchoksi meant is that misc.immigration.* newsgroups are for
    > >>discussion of immigration problems people are having.
    > >>
    > >>
    > > Right. Lots of Americans are having problems with our government
    > >allowing a million plus airliner immigrant parasites such as you
    > >into this country.
    > >
    > I know you have problems, ranting about it on these groups is not going
    > to help!

How would you know?

    > If majority of americans do feel immigration should not be
    > allowed, then please vote for politicians who think like you and bring
    > them to power so that they can reverse the immigration policy. Last I
    > heard, america was a democracy and majority vote does count.

Thanks ... let me jot all of that down ...

    > For most part people on this group are looking for legal avenues, or
    > sometimes even technicalities in the law which is also legal, to immigrate.

Right. They ought to be encouraged to remain in their
beloved homelands.

    > I immigrated here legally because our government had a policy of open
    > immigration and they felt I would be an asset to this country.

"Our government?"

    >I was
    > also assured that this country does not discriminate between people for
    > any reason since it is against the law. By discriminating against me
    > since I am an airline immigrant and you are a descendant of a shoreline
    > immigrant,

The "shoreline immigrants" invented, built, settled, civilized,
and defended this country. You're just here as a parasite,
an exploiter.

? I wonder who is going against the law, you or me?

You are. You're here in violation of the will of
most Americans. Return to your beloved homeland.
Thanks.

Carlos Antunes

"D. Long" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You're here in violation of the will of most Americans.

Who gives a shit? I live my life according to my own free will. You should
try to do the same one of these days.

Regards,
Carlos Antunes.

D. Long

x-no-archive: yes
"The Wizzard" wrote in message
news:aC%[email protected]...
    > your ancestors are immigrants my friend. In fact if you are a white north
    > american they are probably immigrants from my country without which yours
    > would not exist in it's present form. So quit whining, if none of us people
    > from Europe had ever bothered sailing across and colonising North America
    > there would be no USA there would be no Canada etc and the native americans
    > would probably have been much happier.

And therefore massive immigration to the US should continue?
Try again, with logic this time.

D. Long

x-no-archive: yes
"Carlos Antunes" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "D. Long" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > You're here in violation of the will of most Americans.
    > >
    > Who gives a shit?

Most Americans.

    >I live my life according to my own free will.

Please live it in your beloved homeland.

    > You should
    > try to do the same one of these days.

Actually, I do, but thanks for caring.

D. Long

x-no-archive: yes
"Carlos Solorzano" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > from his e-mail address, it sounds like the original poster is a java
    > > expert and he probably hangs out on the java groups. if i post an
    > > article about why .net is so good and why it should be used, etc. he
    > > would probably give me a reply similar to what hnchoksi gave him.
    > >
    > Its a shame to see that a fellow java developer could be so close
    > minded!!!!!

So unless Americans continue to welcome more than a million
legal immigrants per year into this country, they're closed-minded?
Fascinating.