Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
#31
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
I don't profess to be an expert in this matter but my serious hiking buddy in Scottsdale recommended Endurolytes - Electrolyte Replacement Supplement | Hammer Nutrition . I like them because they are a simple capsule you just pop down the hatch, and don't have to dissolve in water and you don't have to deal with any taste.
Far more options that taste nice these days though, compared to when I was biking as a kid. Then, it was those horrid, chalk tasting glucose tabs and they were a bit grim.
REI/LL Bean, Chain Reaction, Wiggle they're all good places to find deals on this stuff online though, so as I said, I just get whatever is on sale at that time.
#32
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
I think the key tricks for the heat are to break often, find what little shade you can, cover yourself as much as you can (wide brimmed hat, not just a baseball cap), consider long sleeves, and strong sunscreen. It's the damn sun's rays beating down on you that get you down, rather than the air temperature. You have about 2 hours after Phantom Ranch before you get to Indian Garden, and that's the brutal part. Once you get to IG, you are home free. So take those 2 hours easy - pace yourself - and don't let the heat get to you.
Pay special attention to electrolytes - if you drink a lot of water, you risk depleting yourself. I nearly passed out in Scottsdale one summer on a hike at 'only' 85F; I drank a ton of water, but did not pay attention to diet. On the last 20 mins of a 5 hour hike, heading downhill, very close to the end, I got all dizzy and started throwing up - nothing but water - lots of water! I rested for a bit, and then got back to the car ok but it could have been much worse. My hiking buddies told me to start taking electrolyte tablets, which I do now.
The ones I posted are more like sweets in format, no messing around. Capsules aren't bad though, but I've not tried them. Found it nice to have something to chew/suck on, without the double entendre, when biking as I don't have a bag to carry to much stuff for snacks on top.
Far more options that taste nice these days though, compared to when I was biking as a kid. Then, it was those horrid, chalk tasting glucose tabs and they were a bit grim.
Far more options that taste nice these days though, compared to when I was biking as a kid. Then, it was those horrid, chalk tasting glucose tabs and they were a bit grim.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 4th 2016 at 12:39 pm.
#33
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
It was 82 in Lafayette yesterday, and I hiked around the reservoir (outer rim). It's only about 5 miles, but it's almost all exposed - good practice!
Note that the heat in the canyon doesn't peak until mid-afternoon. Look at the chart below - this is for May 11 last year, when I did my first hike. It was just over 80 at noon, and peaked at around 90 at 5pm. If you can get down there by 11am, you'll be heading out before the max temps hit.
I haven't yet decided on the best approach between covering up and staying cool. One school of thought, for 'desert' hiking, is to wear long pants, long sleeve shirts (obviously light weight), and serious head covering. But psychologically, that feels uncomfortable. I did my first two hikes in shorts/short-sleeves, with lots of sunscreen. My last hike (March, not too hot) I ended up keeping long sleeves / long pants on. I'd still probably do shorts/short-sleeves in May, but you do see people who are completely covered. Regardless, though, I take care of my head very carefully. They make hats with built-in shade attachments ( , and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Columbia-Sportswear-Adults-Unisex-Tamiami-Cachalot-II-Fishing-Hat-White-/141943970107) , but I prefer to make my own setup out of a wide brimmed hat and a bandana, which I clip to the hat when needed. This way, there is plenty of airflow around the neck (the bandana is kept away from the body by the brim).
One piece of advice - make sure the hat has a 'tie' (whatever you call the thing that goes under the chin). I was once 2hrs into a 5 hr hike in the desert when a gust of wind blew my hat off; lucky for me, it was caught in a nearby bush, but it made me realize how vulnerable I would have been had it blown into a canyon or similar. This is similar to the type I wear.
I also saw one woman with an umbrella. That's a good idea, but it does tie up one hand ...
Speaking of hands ... I used hiking poles this last hike; was definitely useful. My legs were tired, but I was able to use my arms to share the load. Plus, they add stability on the steep downhill sections.
Note that the heat in the canyon doesn't peak until mid-afternoon. Look at the chart below - this is for May 11 last year, when I did my first hike. It was just over 80 at noon, and peaked at around 90 at 5pm. If you can get down there by 11am, you'll be heading out before the max temps hit.
I haven't yet decided on the best approach between covering up and staying cool. One school of thought, for 'desert' hiking, is to wear long pants, long sleeve shirts (obviously light weight), and serious head covering. But psychologically, that feels uncomfortable. I did my first two hikes in shorts/short-sleeves, with lots of sunscreen. My last hike (March, not too hot) I ended up keeping long sleeves / long pants on. I'd still probably do shorts/short-sleeves in May, but you do see people who are completely covered. Regardless, though, I take care of my head very carefully. They make hats with built-in shade attachments ( , and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Columbia-Sportswear-Adults-Unisex-Tamiami-Cachalot-II-Fishing-Hat-White-/141943970107) , but I prefer to make my own setup out of a wide brimmed hat and a bandana, which I clip to the hat when needed. This way, there is plenty of airflow around the neck (the bandana is kept away from the body by the brim).
One piece of advice - make sure the hat has a 'tie' (whatever you call the thing that goes under the chin). I was once 2hrs into a 5 hr hike in the desert when a gust of wind blew my hat off; lucky for me, it was caught in a nearby bush, but it made me realize how vulnerable I would have been had it blown into a canyon or similar. This is similar to the type I wear.
I also saw one woman with an umbrella. That's a good idea, but it does tie up one hand ...
Speaking of hands ... I used hiking poles this last hike; was definitely useful. My legs were tired, but I was able to use my arms to share the load. Plus, they add stability on the steep downhill sections.
Last edited by Steerpike; Apr 6th 2016 at 8:21 am.
#34
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Note that the heat in the canyon doesn't peak until mid-afternoon. Look at the chart below - this is for May 11 last year, when I did my first hike. It was just over 80 at noon, and peaked at around 90 at 5pm. If you can get down there by 11am, you'll be heading out before the max temps hit.
I haven't yet decided on the best approach between covering up and staying cool. One school of thought, for 'desert' hiking, is to wear long pants, long sleeve shirts (obviously light weight), and serious head covering. But psychologically, that feels uncomfortable. I did my first two hikes in shorts/short-sleeves, with lots of sunscreen. My last hike (March, not too hot) I ended up keeping long sleeves / long pants on. I'd still probably do shorts/short-sleeves in May, but you do see people who are completely covered.
One piece of advice - make sure the hat has a 'tie' (whatever you call the thing that goes under the chin). I was once 2hrs into a 5 hr hike in the desert when a gust of wind blew my hat off; lucky for me, it was caught in a nearby bush, but it made me realize how vulnerable I would have been had it blown into a canyon or similar. This is similar to the type I wear.
I've been using poles for about five years now, firstly just for downhills, but more recently for entire hikes. As you point out, it transfers load to the upper body, and is one reason why upper body strength is a good thing to have as well.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 6th 2016 at 8:29 am.
#35
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Wow - Google Maps has a 'street view' of the ENTIRE length of both the Bright Angel and the South Kaibab trails, and the Phantom Ranch area. Sadly it does not extend up the North Kaibab (yet)! Here's an article about the project: https://www.google.com/maps/about/be.../grand-canyon/ . Looks like the GC was their first major project to use the technology. Mind blowing! There are some gorgeous videos / panoramas on their site.
Looking at the picture below (a screenshot from Google Maps, with the 'street view' blue lines superimposed), you can see where I got lost (Briefly). The blue 'street view' overlay is missing from the small footbridge you should take ... (maybe they missed it too !). I mention this because two friends of mine did the 'Rim to Rim' (north to south) for the first time and they too missed the turn, and ended up coming up the South Kaibab, which is absolutely not recommended. Luckily they were super healthy twenty-somethings and didn't bat an eyelid - they were back at the top by 2pm!
I will also mention that the trail along the river, from the Silver Bridge to the point where the Bright Angel Trail starts to head up and away from the river (lower left part of the picture), is a real drag. It is almost pure sand and walking is a real struggle. It's only about 30 minutes, but seems to go on for longer. Finally you get to the 'River Rest Area' (with toilets) and the climb up to Indian Garden begins. There's a proper little 'shelter' there, if you need a rest.
I'm thinking of going back in April - 3rd week - for another day hike down/up, South Kaibab / Bright Angel).
Looking at the picture below (a screenshot from Google Maps, with the 'street view' blue lines superimposed), you can see where I got lost (Briefly). The blue 'street view' overlay is missing from the small footbridge you should take ... (maybe they missed it too !). I mention this because two friends of mine did the 'Rim to Rim' (north to south) for the first time and they too missed the turn, and ended up coming up the South Kaibab, which is absolutely not recommended. Luckily they were super healthy twenty-somethings and didn't bat an eyelid - they were back at the top by 2pm!
I will also mention that the trail along the river, from the Silver Bridge to the point where the Bright Angel Trail starts to head up and away from the river (lower left part of the picture), is a real drag. It is almost pure sand and walking is a real struggle. It's only about 30 minutes, but seems to go on for longer. Finally you get to the 'River Rest Area' (with toilets) and the climb up to Indian Garden begins. There's a proper little 'shelter' there, if you need a rest.
I'm thinking of going back in April - 3rd week - for another day hike down/up, South Kaibab / Bright Angel).
Last edited by Steerpike; Apr 7th 2016 at 8:32 am.
#36
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
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Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
One week from today I'll be doing the north to south rim hike. Both excited and nervous!
Last edited by Giantaxe; May 12th 2016 at 7:09 am.
#37
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
The high at Phantom Ranch yesterday was 101; today predicted as only 83, 2 days ago 95. Looks like some thunderstorm activity may be involved.
https://www.wunderground.com/persona...0160513/mdaily
I'm excited for you!
#38
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
I'm driving to AZ now (overnight in LA) and will be there next week. I'm tempted to head up to the GC and doing a 'south rim to river to south rim' just so I can bump into you! You said earlier the hike was May 19, so I presume the hike takes place on Thursday?
The high at Phantom Ranch yesterday was 101; today predicted as only 83, 2 days ago 95. Looks like some thunderstorm activity may be involved.
https://www.wunderground.com/persona...0160513/mdaily
I'm excited for you!
The high at Phantom Ranch yesterday was 101; today predicted as only 83, 2 days ago 95. Looks like some thunderstorm activity may be involved.
https://www.wunderground.com/persona...0160513/mdaily
I'm excited for you!
It would be fun to meet up with you! I'll PM you some details.
#39
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Oh yes, and remember - the Bright Angel Trail is quite busy. If you get really messed up by the heat, you can just rest for a long time, and head out later. It's not like you have to be out by sundown or anything. I suspect there are folks still hiking out at 10pm! I carry a flashlight (headlamp) for this reason. Don't feel pressured to keep going.
Last edited by Steerpike; May 15th 2016 at 6:30 pm.
#40
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
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Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
- left the North Rim at first light at 4:45am, temperature 29F. Used headlights for the first 30 minutes or so. I'd say there were about 15 people at the trailhead starting off around the same time.
- walking down to Phantom Ranch was long but easy going. No really steep parts. Arrived at the ranch at 10:30am, temperature 80F. Had "lunch" and replenished water.
- crossed the river at 11:15am. Agree that there's a sign missing where you turn right to cross Bright Angel Creek. Ironically, there _is_ a sign visible when you're coming up from the direction of the Kaibab Suspension Bridge.
- we didn't find the sandy section along the Colorado River a problem, maybe because we all had poles.
- started up the Bright Angel Trail at midday, temperature upper 80s F. The first hour or so up felt tough because of the heat. I took one long rest in a spot of shade. Got to Indian Garden at 1:30pm. One of our group got there from the river in less than an hour! She is an amazing uphill hiker.
- left Indian Garden at 2:00pm, temperature 80F. We'd already walked over 20 miles at this point and, as expected, this was the toughest part for us. I crawled the last bit up to Three Mile Resthouse. Ditto for Mile and a Half Resthouse. We had specifically trained with hikes that did a lot of climbing at the end and I'm glad we did. It's 3k feet of climbing from Indian Garden and that's a challenge when you've already walked that kind of distance. Got to the rim at 4:35pm, so pretty much exactly 12 hours for the 24 miles from rim to rim. Stunning to look back across to the North Rim and realize we've just walked it!
I think I drank over a gallon and a half of water; I sweat a lot and knew I would end up doing that. Replenishing electrolytes at each stop was a big help. The north side is very different to the south as there's a lot more vegetation (and running streams at this time of year). I think the Colorado River was the best part. When you see it from the rim it just looks a spec a mile down. Actually to cross it on the suspension bridge and walk alongside it was memorable.
Last edited by Giantaxe; May 25th 2016 at 5:41 am.
#41
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Congratulations! Back at the top by 4:35pm - that's amazing!
I remember having that same 'close to tears' feeling! Being alone, I had no one to share the sense of accomplishment with, which was odd. You see all these people around at the top, who have maybe hiked a mile or two down/up the trail (if that), and here you are, 12 hours/24 miles into a massive hike, and they have no clue what you've just done.
Did your 'car key handoff in the middle' work? I really need to figure a way to do the whole enchilada (north-south) ... Even though my version (south-south) is still difficult (18 miles), it's just not the 'real thing' !
I remember having that same 'close to tears' feeling! Being alone, I had no one to share the sense of accomplishment with, which was odd. You see all these people around at the top, who have maybe hiked a mile or two down/up the trail (if that), and here you are, 12 hours/24 miles into a massive hike, and they have no clue what you've just done.
Did your 'car key handoff in the middle' work? I really need to figure a way to do the whole enchilada (north-south) ... Even though my version (south-south) is still difficult (18 miles), it's just not the 'real thing' !
#42
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
I remember having that same 'close to tears' feeling! Being alone, I had no one to share the sense of accomplishment with, which was odd. You see all these people around at the top, who have maybe hiked a mile or two down/up the trail (if that), and here you are, 12 hours/24 miles into a massive hike, and they have no clue what you've just done.
It was a drag having to do the south to north (4 hour) drive twice, but we stopped at various points on the way second time around. Plus, as we were going to Page at that point, we'd have had to drive part of it anyway.
There is a shuttle bus between the rims and if I did it again, that's what I would use. Start at the south, hike the south and north Kaibab trails, stay at the north, take to shuttle bus back to the south and then maybe go to the Supai and Grand Canyon West areas. Page, btw, is also an amazing hiking area with its slot canyons and hoodoos.
#43
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
...
There is a shuttle bus between the rims and if I did it again, that's what I would use. Start at the south, hike the south and north Kaibab trails, stay at the north, take to shuttle bus back to the south and then maybe go to the Supai and Grand Canyon West areas. Page, btw, is also an amazing hiking area with its slot canyons and hoodoos.
There is a shuttle bus between the rims and if I did it again, that's what I would use. Start at the south, hike the south and north Kaibab trails, stay at the north, take to shuttle bus back to the south and then maybe go to the Supai and Grand Canyon West areas. Page, btw, is also an amazing hiking area with its slot canyons and hoodoos.
I guess you just carry a toothbrush and underwear for the overnight stay!
#44
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Looking at the maps (see copies below - found a great one in a brochure!) and the elevation details, it seems like the North Kaibab is no picnic, with a very steep final ascent from Supai Tunnel to the trailhead (1,441 feet in 1.7 miles), and higher absolute elevation than the South Rim (another 1,000 feet) ... so I can imagine that ending at the North Rim could be a challenge! Going South Kaibab to North Kaibab does make for a shorter hike (21 miles) as the South Kaibab is shorter than the Bright Angel.
This is the advantage of having a car at each end:- no need to carry anything for the overnight after the hike. We left small bags of stuff in the car at the south end.
#45
Re: Grand Canyon - rim to river again!
Realistically, what do you need? If the cabins provide showers, soap, and towels, I could imagine suffering through the next day in the same clothes (maybe carry t-shirt and undies). If there are meal facilities when you get there then you don't need to carry food. If the shuttle doesn't leave at the crack of dawn, then you can also grab a bite before you leave the next day. I see a plan brewing ...