karaokeM

Hi

We currently live in Melbourne, since reading some threads about education I have found myself increasing worrried about my childrens future. Yesterday I was quizzing a friends 16 daughter who has been here for two years on how she thought the school work in Australia compared with England, she said that the school work was much more harder in England, and thought they were a lot slacker in Australia. I have discusse this with my hubby, but unfortunately he thinks I have rose coloured glasses on regarding the UK and I don't trust his judgement because I believe he would say anything to stay here.

Any advice or opinion would be appreciated.

Mandy

Bob

I think a fair bit would also depend on where you lived in the UK, as I'm sure might be the case in Oz....though the uni thing, you'll need 3 year residency to get the LEA to stump your costs so you won't be billed as a foreign student...

Ben

I'm not in australia but I do remember my son had the chance to go back to school in the UK with his old friends for a day and he said the same thing. However, after a number of conversations regarding that day, it wasn't so much that the work was harder or more difficult that what he has here in his US school, or more was accomplished in the day, it was more that the teachers were stricter, never smiled or seemed to enjoy their job. He found it harder because he wasn't allowed to talk with friends during class time, they couldn't discuss anything and just had to copy everything down that the teachers put on the blackboard. He hated it and much preferred the more relaxed attitude of the teachers here

If you really are concerned, then I would find out what she really means by harder. Was it that the work was beyond her abilities or she was stretched mentally far more, or was it more in how the teachers taught but they were teaching the same stuff basically?

karaokeM

Dear Bob

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I got the impression that work was more complex and harder subjects, but anyway I'll check I got the right end of the stick, however, a recent visit from in-laws from uk, also seemed suprised in comparison to cousins in uk they stated how strict the english schools were regarding taking holidays and time off other than the designated holidays which were given by the school, whilst here that does not seem to be the case, my kids sometimes push to have days off saying things so-an-so had a week off, or everyone's not going today because it's last day of term or other kids are going to camp etc. Also seem to have very little in homework.

miss piggy

We've had a direct comparison this year as our 15 year old son has gone back to the UK & done a term's exchange there. He's relatively on the ball about things academic ,especially as he is wanting to go to Uni in the UK.He is in Year 10 here (doing School Certificate this year) but in the UK was taught in the Lower Sixth ( equivalent of Year 11). He didn't have any real academic problems keeping up with the classes he was put in while he was away.

His feedback was that up to GCSE /School Certificate the two systems/standards were very similar but that in the final 2 years the UK forges ahead pretty rapidly.You can understand this when you look at the number of subjects they do - the NSW HSC (the only state we have knowledge of) leads to you essentially doing 5/6 subjects all the way through whereas the A level system narrows this down to 3 by your final year in school : smaller number of subjects = greater depth in those subjects.

We've spoken to many Unis about coming back into the UK education system after an Australian secondary education & most are OK with it apart from those where the course has an 'Assumed knowledge' aspect ie you are OK applying for ,say, Politics or Philosophy where everyone is new to the subject but there is a problem when you are applying for eg Science subjects where you have covered a different (& narrower) syllabus.

I have to add the caveat that our comparison is between 2 private schools - no knowledge of the standards in the Australian / English public schools (apart from primary which isn't the issue here) : I suspect in both countries a lot depends on where you live.

MikeStanton

As somebody who moved back to the UK a while ago, my advice is that Oz secondary/high school education is generally OK (not great, but OK). In fact, NZ, Oz and UK at that level are all much of a muchness.

Beyond high school, look beyond Oz.

jockomalay

Hi Bob,

I think you need to revise your statements regarding the standard 3 year residency requirement as this isn't the whole story. It very much depends upon the definition of "Ordinary residence" as far as the Scottish regs are concerned and the exceptions clauses that apply.

see

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19991131.htm Shedule 2 Ordinary residence. Regulation 3(2).

Cheers

Jockomalay

MrsB

We're also in Melbourne - and it's something that I ponder about too.

The expectations don't seem to be set that high. For example - my preppie has to be able to read 45 words by the end of the year (Dec), and he could read them all by May. So I asked the teacher to give me another wordlist - but was told 'no'. So we printed out some words on the computer and carried on regardless at home. The books he brings home to read have other words in them that are not on the 45 word list, so it puzzles me as to why they are so reluctant to give them more word lists, and move them on if need be?

My Grade 3 child got more homework in Year 1 in England - and it was stuff which she had to think about, e.g. go and measure 3 things, draw them and write the measurement underneath. Now, all she does is "rote" homework - spellings which she writes out every day - but are not tested, and writing out her tables. She has been on her 9x table for about 3 months now and knows it inside out?!

Sometimes I wonder whether I'm just being silly, or whether I should be concerned.

Jad - Does your 12 year old seriously get colouring to do??? :scared:

uk+kiwi

[QUOTE=kendodd]
The expectations don't seem to be set that high. For example - my preppie has to be able to read 45 words by the end of the year (Dec), and he could read them all by May. So I asked the teacher to give me another wordlist - but was told 'no'. So we printed out some words on the computer and carried on regardless at home. The books he brings home to read have other words in them that are not on the 45 word list, so it puzzles me as to why they are so reluctant to give them more word lists, and move them on if need be?

QUOTE]

That's exactly the same in the UK! It's because once they know the words for that school year/Key Stage 1 (year 2 national exams for kdis in the age 6-7 year) they don't need to push them to know more. My daughter knew all these by the end of reception and once they're done they're done. And this is at a top state school. Same with spellings. She's in Year 1 now and once they finish the 25 lists of spellings throughout the year, that's it until Year 2 (as most don't finish of course). So my experience of the UK is the same as yours on this front.

But to the OP, I have no personal experience with the Aus education system, but I believe the UK would be more advanced. I was surprised to discover last week (parents eve) that my 6 year old daughter has covered Proper nouns, adjectives and verbs this term. This is in year 1, which as the second year of their schooling life I think is the equivalent of year 2 in Australia. The best readers would be onto Harry Potter by or at the age of 7. Homework is once a week for us (a sheet or 2 of maths like the excercises Ken described above) plus reading and spellings.

I have been told that the Aus system is based on the US system unlike the NZ system which aligns to the British system. I have to be honest in that I share your concerns about education and it is a big thing holding us back from going to NZ since it would be unlikely for us to stay long term (in which case I don't think there is a problem) and I worry that 2-5 years out of the British system, especially at a primary level, may have negative impacts for a while after our return. But only academically and at the end of the day, we all have different priorities and there is also more to life. I have heard for example great things about social skills development in overseas schools which I feel are totally lacking here, at the expense perhaps of really knowledgeable kids.

Interesting point though someone made about backgrounds for certain UK degrees. MY almost 5 year old has wanted to be a vet since she turned 2 (could she not have chosen something easier to get into!) thus I will have to bear that in mind also if we move for a few years. Far too much to worry about as a parent these days!

binman

For many parents education becomes a bit of an obsession and understandably so. Sadly I ended up in a British Comprehensive system where anyone that even got to university was deemed as almost gifted. I was determined that my children would not go through the same experience. My wife was fortunate and attended a very expensive and prestigious private school and did very well and had the A levels to apply to study medicine.We dragged out her school books from her junior days a few months ago and guess what, the only difference between our daughters work who attends a very good local state school here in NZ and her mothers performance was fifteen thousand pounds a year. I have from time to time toyed with the idea of moving back to Aussie, the major restraining factor was the question 'why do so many Aussie families feel the need to send their children to private schools?" Cheers binman

uk+kiwi

Am I right in recalling that your children are at school in NZ Binman
(Bucklands Beach area?) I believe that to be the case and if so am very pleased with what you wrote since although I am not obsessed with education, I also would not want to see my daughters bored if moved or going backwards academically.

My husband's best friend from NZ seemed surprised by our girls reading and writing (they were 5 & 3 at the time) when she visited us last Summer, hence my cautiousness as they live in Epsom, Auckland, which I know from research is a very good area for schooling.

But of course I know schools are all very different and approach the children in their care in widely differing ways.

Anyhow, we're going to encourage the girls down the sports/acting/music route as there is much more money involved than in the top traditional professions!

binman

Although NZ is not everyones cup of tea, one common thread that nearly everyone seems to agree on is how their children enjoy their schools and especially junior and intermediate level. There is an expectation however for parental input,classroom help, working bees and what seems like a steady stream of money for this and that etc. Certainly standards are high in the area where my children attend school (yes, Bucklands Beach, Howick)to which much of the credit must go to the commitment and energy put in by the teaching staff. One misconception re NZ education is that the system is not as academically challenging as the UK, certainly in the sought after school areas this is not the case and often quite the reverse, this often comes as a bit of a shock to new migrants whose children are doing so well in their country of origin and suddenly find their children are having to compete with the academically successful Asian community and struggling. Thinks I am going to put my children down for wine makers, far less stress and they can keep me supplied with great vintages in my dotage. Cheers binman

Bob

Okay, for England and Wales then.

uk+kiwi

[QUOTE=binman]Although NZ is not everyones cup of tea, one common thread that nearly everyone seems to agree on is how their children enjoy their schools and especially junior and intermediate level.

Oh thanks for that. It is lovely for children, especially during their primary years, to really enjoy school. I loved it, but am not sure my daughter would say the same - 'accept going' is more realistic.

Do you think the same would be said for most of the areas highly populated with decile 10 schools - ie North Shore for example. Perhaps I have incorrectly thought that they would be bored and doing nothing but playing all day, even though I do accept that children learn a lot through play, and lessons should be as fun as possible.

binman

[QUOTE=uk+kiwi] I am confident that you are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well your children adapt and enjoy their NZ primary years. There will be lots of very good primary schools on the North Shore. You should find them very approachable and happy to show you around. The ERO reports will give you some inkling on how an individual school is managed and performs. Cheers binman