Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:00 pm
#61
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Orwell warned us about the dangers of criminalizing ideas.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:06 pm
#62
Banned
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,154
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Orwell warned us about the dangers of criminalizing ideas.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
*goes to lie down*
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:09 pm
#63
Mouthy Yank
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,229
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Orwell warned us about the dangers of criminalizing ideas.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
That's how it's supposed to work. Good people doing something to get it across to bad people that they'd better wise up, thanks, we want a good society around here.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:13 pm
#64
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
The effects of speech can be actionable. Fraud, assault, abuse, lying, stirring up trouble, harassment, doing someone out of a job, ruining a reputation, those are the things that can be identified. But someone saying, for example, "Oh, all Hungarian-American women are nothing but worthless thieving lazy baggage" doesn't injure me unless they cause someone to take action harming me. If, as is more likely to happen in the circles in which I move, they get dirty looks and comments like "that was a shitty thing to say, asshole", they had their free speech, they said what they said, they're not criminals, but they get a clear message that their ideas are disapproved of.
That's how it's supposed to work. Good people doing something to get it across to bad people that they'd better wise up, thanks, we want a good society around here.
That's how it's supposed to work. Good people doing something to get it across to bad people that they'd better wise up, thanks, we want a good society around here.
I can see limited, exceptional cases where targeted speech bans might be justified, such as banning the Nazis and Nazi symbolism in Germany. (They obviously didn't cope so well with those, and we certainly don't want to make it easier for them to band together and get back into the governance business.) But I can't see why that would be necessary in the US or, for that matter, in the UK.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:15 pm
#65
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,531
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Make a big enough stink about the level of offence you feel and you will. The police are now regularly trawling the likes of twitter and FB to find people they can arrest and charge with "hate speech", for example, you can't call someone a "mong" anymore, or a spastic, or a flid, or gay, unless they are. You might not LIKE it, I certainly don't do it, but people OUGHT to be able to use the words.
This is a very slippery slope. Now we already have censorship of the press coming.
This is a very slippery slope. Now we already have censorship of the press coming.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:26 pm
#66
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,531
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Orwell warned us about the dangers of criminalizing ideas.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
The state should regulate action, not thought. If you want to lynch me, that's fine, just so long as you don't attempt to turn your dream into a reality. You can believe whatever you like; doing it is another matter.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:29 pm
#67
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Only in limited circumstances.
If I say that I hate you and hope that your future is an unpleasant one, then that's fine.
If I try to encourage others to kill you and provide my minions with details that would aid them in hastening your demise, then that would probably be conspiracy, which is a crime.
If I say that I hate you and hope that your future is an unpleasant one, then that's fine.
If I try to encourage others to kill you and provide my minions with details that would aid them in hastening your demise, then that would probably be conspiracy, which is a crime.
Dec 22nd 2013, 6:55 pm
#68
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
The line gets fuzzy with things like a diet of bile against 'scrounging foreigners' in tabloids, for example, which can incite violence in practice.
Dec 22nd 2013, 7:05 pm
#69
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: State College Pa.
Posts: 1,585
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Steve
Dec 22nd 2013, 7:40 pm
#70
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 76
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
Bollocks
"For 2012 entry, of UK students attending maintained or independent schools or colleges in the UK, 57.5% of places went to applicants from the state (maintained) sector and 42.5% to applicants from the independent sector: "
http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_univer...hool_type.html
...and that has zero to do with "democracy"
"For 2012 entry, of UK students attending maintained or independent schools or colleges in the UK, 57.5% of places went to applicants from the state (maintained) sector and 42.5% to applicants from the independent sector: "
http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_univer...hool_type.html
...and that has zero to do with "democracy"
Oxford and Cambridge has had it's fair share of scrutiny regarding the level of equality, based on social demographics in regards to their admissions. It's been publicized on numerous occasions.
Dec 22nd 2013, 7:41 pm
#71
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us...king.html?_r=0
Dec 22nd 2013, 7:56 pm
#72
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 76
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...dge-race-class
Not really...... Ok a little exaggerated, but pretty close.
Not really...... Ok a little exaggerated, but pretty close.
Dec 22nd 2013, 8:08 pm
#74
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: State College Pa.
Posts: 1,585
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
So what, your "fact" is beyond tosh, whatever the publicity that its received. The point is that although only 10% of kids in the UK are privately educated, as MANY as 42% of Oxbridge candidates are from those institutions.
Dec 22nd 2013, 8:13 pm
#75
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,531
Re: Does Britain need to catch up ?????
But if students with a private school education are better prepared for an Oxford or Cambridge education, shouldn't they get the places?