SultanOfSwing

I did mine five years ago. I can't remember very well how many people were there but we filled up one half of a pretty big assembly hall type room, so I'd say at least 100 but no more than 2-300.

Apart from having to drive in Chicago, and paying ridiculous rates for parking, it was kind of fun, I suppose. It was in July, so the weather was nice, I had a day off work for it and we all went to the ceremony and then went out for lunch once we got back up north again. I didn't really have much of an emotional reaction to it, but then unless a close friend or relative has just died, I don't get like that anyway.

In a way I felt kind of bad that I had such an easy route (married to a US citizen) compared to some of the people there.

Redwing

It's about 30 years since I got mine. There were about 40 of us there. I think I was a little overawed by it all. My wife and 2 friends went with me, and after it was over, my friends said "Right, let's go and get a drink to celebrate." Which we did.

Lion in Winter

One part was practical. I wanted to make sure that I had all the same citizenships as the Little Lion, so we are now both dual citizens. In that sense, I had no other feelings about it at all it was just the last step in a bureaucratic process.

On the other hand, I felt uncomfortable - I was making a deliberate decision to sign up for, and state allegiance to, a country whose actions as a state (ie not individual Americans) have been partly or fully responsible for so much misery in so many countries, including some people who are friends of mine. While there is much that the UK has done that is reprehensible, I was just born there and don't have to actively declare that I believe in it. Deliberately swearing to fight for this country (as a state), etc. etc. - well, let's just say my heart wasn't in it.

Beaverstate

Yet....?

Lion in Winter

Yet what?

Beaverstate

Yet in spite of all doubts and disagreements you pledge yes

Accurate?

Lion in Winter

Well it wasn't really an option, was it.

I don't really believe all that much in political states and their assorted propagandas. Should the time come to fight for anything, I hope I would make the right choice based on principle, not on whose patch of ground I happened to be living on. My opinion on this was partly shaped as a child - we had as a family friend a German guy who came from a long line of German military and had, likewise, sworn an oath to fight for his country. At the age of 19 he escaped from Nazi Germany and came to fight against his countrymen, with the British,finally getting himself into the first British commandos. Principle trumps oaths sworn to political entities.

Beaverstate

An option actually yes there is one, yes or no. May not be an option you prefer.

If you feel the need to 'escape' from America then I will support you. We are not Nazi Germany yet.

For myself if I were to find myself in the position of pledging loyalty to a new nation I would consider what that nation stood for 'before' saying yes.

Easy for me as I'm not going anywhere.

Lion in Winter

I did, and do, consider what it stands for. I also weighed up the other matters before me. The "escape from America" thing is a straw man - I provided an example referring to another person in another country at another time to illustrate how principle trumps political entities - and "nations" are political entities. And they are not religions - there is no objection at all to taking a rational approach to one's membership in them.

SultanOfSwing

Are we getting into the realms of overthinking it here? I was 31 when I became a citizen, so selective service was already five years behind me. The chances of the army deciding that they need the likes of me to fight for them are infinitesimal (though technically I think they can come for me until I'm 40; Christ knows why they'd want to).

The USA and the UK will likely always be 'on the same side' anyway so the chances of having to pick one over the other is slim to none. No western nation's record is 100% squeaky clean anyway, especially those who have been around since the time of the Romans and earlier, so why worry about it?

Lion in Winter

Yes, I really doubt the US armed services would want me. Or the UK's if it comes to that. And it's also unlikely I would ever have to choose between those two particular countries in terms of fighting.

As it is, I live within the law, pay my taxes, vote, don't plot against the state, and as far as I know do not practice sedition. I think I'm ok on the citizenship front.

SultanOfSwing

That's all you need to do to fulfill the terms, such as they are, anyway. It doesn't say anywhere in the citizenship paperwork that you must agree with every single policy of the federal government. Otherwise they'd not give you the right to vote.

It was a pretty easy decision for me. I'm not resident in the UK, I probably won't ever be again. I am resident here, likely for life, so why pay out an ever increasing amount for a new green card every ten years (and run the risk of some rule change in the future buggering things up for me, unlikely as it is), when I can just pay one last fee and be done with it all? Given I'm not going to leave the US in the near future, having to file US tax returns for life doesn't bother me one bit.

There are no downsides to multiple-nationality. Only benefits. It's the ultimate form of the best of both (or more) worlds, IMO.

Lion in Winter

Exactly. That's pretty much how I looked at it except for the "here for life" bit which may well not be the case, although I have been here for a long tme. In particular, having a dual (actually triple) nationality child, I didn't want to run any risk of one of those rule changes making it difficult for us to live in the same country whenever we might choose to do so.

SultanOfSwing

It makes it all look very sterile, or clinical, I suppose. From my point of view though, being married to a USC and holding probably the easiest green card it's possible to get, it was just the final step in a process.

I think for the people who have got here through a more difficult route, there's more significance (if that's the right word) placed on it. I'm not trying to diminish it, but for me, citizenship was always the goal I was working towards, there was never really any uncertainty or hardship, other than financial, along the way.

Lion in Winter

Yes, it definitely different for some people - but what the exact nature of the difference is isn't always clear. We would have to ask. I imagine it's different, depending on the circumstances you left and those of your arrival. I just can't bring myself to "love" a political entity, although I absolutely feel an emotional attachment to the country I grew up in - but not because of its nature as a state, it just feels like home to me. I'm not going to start swearing oaths to it though, unless there is some necessity.