A-Man

Looks like Mexico is finally being rewarded for years of sending waves of
illegal immigrants into the USA. Quoted from the article "President Bush
will propose immigration law changes to allow workers from Mexico to enter
the United States if they have jobs waiting for them." Can someone more
familiar with US law please explain to me why on earth only Mexico would be
included?

As an immigrant myself, Bush has just taken things one step to far. It is
VERY clear to me that Bush is serving his own interests only and completely
ignoring the long-term interests of the US and her citizens and LEGAL
immigrants. Unfortunately, not many other people have seen this yet. Hey
Euro, can I please, claim asylum there?

I would love to ask Bush the following: "Forgiving current illegal Mexican
workers who have jobs in the US and allowing an unlimited future number of
Mexicans to enter the US would be good for the citizens of the United States
because...".

The fact that he is proposing this while millions of US citizens are
unemployed is sheer lunacy ... I think people are still clouded by 9/11 and
Bush's "heroism" reaction to 9/11 (give me a break...I believe just about
every president would have bombed Afghan afterwards...Clinton sent bombs
into Afghan remember, for much less)

I really hope for the mercy of the future of the USA that this backfires on
Bush and he angers the entire LEGAL immigrant/citizen community. Many
domestic jobs are already finding their way to cheap labor countries, this
is the last thing we need, more workers when millions are unemployed.

Again, it is very clear Bush is self-serving only. Illegal immigrants allow
him and his business coons (remember how close he was to Enron? Coincidence
that it turned out to be the biggest fraud in US history?....see the light
people!) to massively cut labor LEGALLY and pocket even more money all while
ever more Americans go hungry and go without healthcare.

I am convinced that in a few years the Bush doctrine will be looked upon as
the USA's darkest hour.

Even billionaire George Soros is throwing MILLIONS of dollars at various
groups (one of them being www.moveon.org) to fund various anti-bush ads. He
himself has spoken out against Bush many times.

In Bush's own dictatorial words: "You're either with us or against us"..
President bush: he started with a healthy surplus and 3 years later ended
up with a record deficit, way to go!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...pr_wh/bush_imm
igration_2

Paul Gani

"A-MAN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I would love to ask Bush the following: "Forgiving current illegal
Mexican
    > workers who have jobs in the US and allowing an unlimited future number of
    > Mexicans to enter the US would be good for the citizens of the United
States
    > because...".

...many U.S. companies are finding themselves unable to compete with
companies in low wage countries such as China, and unless something is done
to assist the American companies in competitiveness, such as providing the
companies with a reliable source of low cost labor, the U.S. companies will
simply move the factories overseas, or go out of business completely, and
ALL of the jobs associated with those companies will disappear.

Native born and/or raised Americans, with their superior native language and
cultural skills will be able to dominate in the higher wage management
postitions of the now more competitive companies. With skilled management,
and low labor costs, these companies now have the ability to compete not
only in the domestic markets, but the world export markets, potentially
increasing their sales, and thus creating new job positions for all.

Or, we could always go back to pre-globalization, protectionist policies.
I'd love to shop at Walmart and pay $60 for generic jeans made by unionized
$22/hr American employees. I also long for the days I paid $1000 for my 25"
television.

Personally, I don't think his plan goes far enough. In countries all over
the world, middle class families can afford full time maids, cooks, and
nannies, due to ample supplies of poor laborers, either domestic or
imported.

Paulgani

Vampier

[snip]

Bush can't even give me a job.. and he sure as hell can't run a state let
alone a complete super power. Why are we so bullied arround with annoyed
CBIS workers who give us sh!t and prettend like we are some BSE cows? I hate
to say this but being illegal here in the US pays off.... even there where
plans to give drivers licenses to illegals... WTF is up with that? I can
hardly pay form car insurance.. let alone a car.. how do illegals do it...
right.. they get one month... so they can get their drivers license and
license plates and then they cancel it... raising the prices for car
insurance and medical costs... so much for being legal here. (I'm Dutch btw)

End of ranting

Patrick/Vampier

Rete

Ahhh man. Here I thought I was middle class. Bummer. Guess not because I don't have any of those people working for me, because I sure as hell couldn't afford them ;-(

Rete

Folinskyinla

Hi:

The country is ADJACENT. El Paso is a suburb of Cd. Juarez. TJ is bigger than San Diego.

Until the 1965 amendments cut in 1968, there was no numerical limitation on Western Hemisphere immigration at all -- only the qualitative restrictions. In a way, they were given the favorable treatment that spouses of US citizens are given today.

This is a politcal question and your point is well taken. But from a historical viewpoint, it can be seen as restoring what was long de jure practice and bringing continuing de facto practice into compliance with the law.

ELo

Paulgani: You need to read more. Because of globalization, they are now exporting middle-management jobs overseas, as well.

In terms of the Mexican preference, Mexicans have always been given preference -- at least in small numbers. The agricultural community has long lobbied to maintain certain levels of cheap Mexican labor in the Southwest. Now Bush is trying to expand that whole notion by paying homage to the growing Latino electorate in key states.

This is a piecemeal approach to immigration policy. We are going to screw ourselves if we continue to carry out immigration law and reform in this way.

Andrew Defaria

Vampier wrote:

    > Bush can't even give me a job..

Psst. Here's a clue. You have to get your own job!
--
I(nternal) R(evenue) S(ervice): We've got what it takes to take what
you've got.

A-Man

    > ...many U.S. companies are finding themselves unable to compete with
    > companies in low wage countries such as China, and unless something is
done
    > to assist the American companies in competitiveness, such as providing the
    > companies with a reliable source of low cost labor, the U.S. companies
will
    > simply move the factories overseas, or go out of business completely, and
    > ALL of the jobs associated with those companies will disappear.

There are quite a few things wrong with your argument. First of all, a
Chinese manufacturer makes roughly $0.25 / hour. I don't know anybody -
illegal workers included - who could possibly survive on $0.25 / hour in the
US. The problem of US companies being unable to compete is really more a
problem of corrupt free trade practices than anything else. Under our
current globalization system, it pays to trade unfair (China - with its
currency peg to the US dollar), and when it benefits a country to trade
unfairly, we end up with a global race to the bottom driving wages and
standards of living down everywhere.

    > Native born and/or raised Americans, with their superior native language
and
    > cultural skills will be able to dominate in the higher wage management
    > postitions of the now more competitive companies. With skilled
management,
    > and low labor costs, these companies now have the ability to compete not
    > only in the domestic markets, but the world export markets, potentially
    > increasing their sales, and thus creating new job positions for all.

The price of the currency is a much bigger factor then domestic wage rates
for global free trade (import / export). Under ideal utopian FAIR
free-trade, wage rates are actually irrelavant, currency exchange rates are
what matter. With all the jobs flowing to China, what SHOULD be happening
is the Chinese yuan should be appreciating against the dollar until an
equalibrium was reached where there was no benefit to moving jobs to China.

    > Or, we could always go back to pre-globalization, protectionist policies.
    > I'd love to shop at Walmart and pay $60 for generic jeans made by
unionized
    > $22/hr American employees. I also long for the days I paid $1000 for my
25"
    > television.

As noted above, fair free trade is good for all, no doubt; unfair free trade
is bad for all - eventually even those participating in it as their low wage
rates will remain low forever.

    > Personally, I don't think his plan goes far enough. In countries all over
    > the world, middle class families can afford full time maids, cooks, and
    > nannies, due to ample supplies of poor laborers, either domestic or
    > imported.

Well, I'm sorry we don't have enough poor laborers here in the US to do your
laundry for you. We should be trying to eliminate the poor, not import more
of it.

A-Man

    > The country is ADJACENT. El Paso is a suburb of Cd. Juarez. TJ is
    > bigger than San Diego.

Agreed, so why not include Canada?

    > Until the 1965 amendments cut in 1968, there was no numerical limitation
    > on Western Hemisphere immigration at all -- only the qualitative
    > restrictions. In a way, they were given the favorable treatment that
    > spouses of US citizens are given today.
    > This is a politcal question and your point is well taken. But from a
    > historical viewpoint, it can be seen as restoring what was long de
    > jure practice and bringing continuing de facto practice into
    > compliance with the law.

I understand that for sure, and that is a good point you have made above.
What I find odd is why now? Votes, in my opinion, is the ONLY reason
(election year). It strikes me as odd that Bush is thinking about this law
of forgiving illegals (even though we don't know who they are), and
preparing to bring more in, and at the same time now requiring visitors from
most countries to be photographed and fingerprinted, instituted the "what is
the constitution?" Patriot Act, increased spending on Border enforcement and
the department of Homeland Security; the only thing this adds up to is a
pleading for votes from the Hispanic community. He seems to be extremely
concerned about who and where everyone is in the USA EXCEPT the 4-5 million
illegal Mexican workers.

A-Man

"Vampier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [snip]
    > Bush can't even give me a job.. and he sure as hell can't run a state let
    > alone a complete super power. Why are we so bullied arround with annoyed
    > CBIS workers who give us sh!t and prettend like we are some BSE cows? I
hate
    > to say this but being illegal here in the US pays off.... even there where
    > plans to give drivers licenses to illegals... WTF is up with that? I can
    > hardly pay form car insurance.. let alone a car.. how do illegals do it...
    > right.. they get one month... so they can get their drivers license and
    > license plates and then they cancel it... raising the prices for car
    > insurance and medical costs... so much for being legal here. (I'm Dutch
btw)

I can hardly pay my medical insurance premiums and my state has a severe
backlog of unpaid medical services rendered on illegal aliens.

If you are as angry as I, I would encourage you and others that when you do
become a citizen do not vote for Bush or anyone ever associated with the
Bush administration. His latest stance is a complete sell-out to the
American public and a total slap in the face to the immigrant community.

A-Man

"Andrew DeFaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Vampier wrote:
    > > Bush can't even give me a job..
    > Psst. Here's a clue. You have to get your own job!

Unfortunately, global free-trade policy does not yet allow the free movement
of people. It is tough to chase the exploding number of jobs going to China
and India. Everything is all well and good with the world until you train
your cheap labor replacement!

Andrew Defaria

A-MAN wrote:

    > "Andrew DeFaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Vampier wrote:
    >>> Bush can't even give me a job..
    >> Psst. Here's a clue. You have to get your own job!
    > Unfortunately, global free-trade policy does not yet allow the free
    > movement of people. It is tough to chase the exploding number of jobs
    > going to China and India. Everything is all well and good with the
    > world until you train your cheap labor replacement!

It's clear you have your axe to grind however what does that have to do
with anything?!? It's clear that the leader of a country is not
responsible for finding you a job! You must find your own.


--
Smile, it's the second best thing you can do with your lips.

Reargunner666

The brother of george bush is married to a former mexican national who
is also a relative of Vincente Fox, the prime minister of Mexico. Any
more questions?

supernav

I bet you i can bring in a boatload of Africans who'll work even CHEAPER then Mexicans!

That "we need cheap labour" cry is bullshit. If they want cheap labour -- they can get it from chinese, africans and somalians.

-= nav=-

Danny Davis

It would be a great thing if everyone would take a breath and consider more
of the effect this will have on the US.

We allow our neighbors to the north many privileges that are not afforded to
the neighbors to the south. Nafta had a tremendous effect on the economy. If
we allow Mexican CITIZENS to work here legally there will be no need to
guard the border from the hordes that are crossing now. God only knows who
is coming in the mix. It is easy to hide in the crowd. If the crowd of
Illegal crossing is thinned out it would be easier to spot those that have
something to hide. There are many reasons that this is a good option. If you
will remember correctly Bill Clinton presided over the first Amnesty
program.

By the way, Have you been to China. I have. I built roads there. I love the
Chinese people. I don't agree with all our policies toward their government
but they are just people like the rest of us. Protectionism is a policy
filled with racism and prejudice. It is time that we take a look at all our
policies regarding other nations.

I am not happy with our immigration services. Yes I brought my wife here
legally and have paid my fees. It has many faults. I would like to bring my
Mother-In-Law from Russia but the policy says I can't. That sucks. BUT it is
a big job and there are many concerns. If you go visit any of the warehouse
facilities were applications are and distributed it is amazing anyone gets
through at all. Taking some of the load off the system by giving status to
our adjacent neighbor to the south is a welcome change. maybe we can get
something else done for a change.

Dan
"A-MAN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Looks like Mexico is finally being rewarded for years of sending waves of
    > illegal immigrants into the USA. Quoted from the article "President Bush
    > will propose immigration law changes to allow workers from Mexico to enter
    > the United States if they have jobs waiting for them." Can someone more
    > familiar with US law please explain to me why on earth only Mexico would
be
    > included?
    > As an immigrant myself, Bush has just taken things one step to far. It is
    > VERY clear to me that Bush is serving his own interests only and
completely
    > ignoring the long-term interests of the US and her citizens and LEGAL
    > immigrants. Unfortunately, not many other people have seen this yet. Hey
    > Euro, can I please, claim asylum there?
    > I would love to ask Bush the following: "Forgiving current illegal
Mexican
    > workers who have jobs in the US and allowing an unlimited future number of
    > Mexicans to enter the US would be good for the citizens of the United
States
    > because...".
    > The fact that he is proposing this while millions of US citizens are
    > unemployed is sheer lunacy ... I think people are still clouded by 9/11
and
    > Bush's "heroism" reaction to 9/11 (give me a break...I believe just about
    > every president would have bombed Afghan afterwards...Clinton sent bombs
    > into Afghan remember, for much less)
    > I really hope for the mercy of the future of the USA that this backfires
on
    > Bush and he angers the entire LEGAL immigrant/citizen community. Many
    > domestic jobs are already finding their way to cheap labor countries, this
    > is the last thing we need, more workers when millions are unemployed.
    > Again, it is very clear Bush is self-serving only. Illegal immigrants
allow
    > him and his business coons (remember how close he was to Enron?
Coincidence
    > that it turned out to be the biggest fraud in US history?....see the light
    > people!) to massively cut labor LEGALLY and pocket even more money all
while
    > ever more Americans go hungry and go without healthcare.
    > I am convinced that in a few years the Bush doctrine will be looked upon
as
    > the USA's darkest hour.
    > Even billionaire George Soros is throwing MILLIONS of dollars at various
    > groups (one of them being www.moveon.org) to fund various anti-bush ads.
He
    > himself has spoken out against Bush many times.
    > In Bush's own dictatorial words: "You're either with us or against us"..
    > President bush: he started with a healthy surplus and 3 years later ended
    > up with a record deficit, way to go!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...pr_wh/bush_imm
    > igration_2