Border Patrol
 

Is there a need for the amount of Border Patrol or is it over excessive. What do you think?

Our roadtrip to West Texas meant that on most of our journey we traveled on US 90 from San Antonio to Alpine. From Uvalde onwards the highway is a major Border Patrol area. It is a fairly uninhabited and desolate part of Texas, extremely hot and dusty with towns many miles apart and all fairly small but it is an area that a lot of people try to cross the border from Mexico to the USA.

Looking at the distance anyone doing this would have to travel with the elements of heat, lack of shade or water and the rugged terrain they would need to cross shows how desperate they must be. I can't even imagine being able to attempt it. The heat alone last week was in triple digits. The vehicle patrols covered miles and miles, even outside the huge Big Bend State Park.

We have traveled this way before but this is the most active I have seen the road being patrolled.

We went through checkpoints 4 times on this trip.

First one was quick every vehicle was passed through without hassle. Second one, a truck in line ahead of us was pulled to one side after the sniffer dogs started going crazy . The third one was very interesting. A tractor trailer loaded with bales of hay was being completely emptied with driver and passenger hand cuffed. Stop four took forever, this was Friday at 4pm so it may be normal traffic at that time.

I know these check points are a deterrent for human smuggling and drugs I was just surprised at the amount of them on one highway.

Re: Border Patrol
 

They may have been looking for something specific, perhaps based on a tip off or other intelligence.

Obviously we don't see CBP checkpoints in my neck of the woods, but there are days when there are a lot of state police around, and they clearly aren't running speed traps - they're out there for a particular purpose. :sneaky:

Re: Border Patrol
 

:eek: They must have heard we were in the area:o

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It's bloody crazy when NASCAR is in town.

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The marshalls in the parking areas and police around the speedway are legendary for making the traffic worse not better. I was there a few weeks ago and couldn't get out onto the road down to the interstate because the marshalls had closed that exit, and I was directed out on to Hwy29, in the wrong direction (it has a median), and from there the police had also closed the roar to the interstate. It's blöödy ridiculous! :frown:

Re: Border Patrol
 

Where we used to lived up in Maine, there were a few, mostly with the coast guard...but it wasn't looking for illegals nipping over the border, it was a pure money grab.

Easy business finding Canadians who had sailed down for the weekend and left a gun in their boat.

Search and ticket for not having a license and depending on the weapon, they seize it.

Only saw one or so random check points on the roads while we were there but they were looking to tag Canadian logging trucks, mostly on weight/load issues which were also easy fines.

Re: Border Patrol
 

Didn't we have this thread... um... yes: http://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-5...-822451/page5/

Can't remember if I mentioned in that thread but I knew a guy who was arrested by a sheriff's deputy in Texas back when they could get DHS 287(g) authority to set up their own roadblocks. Being Canadian, he only had his DL on him as you could enter the US with just that at the time. So he was put in jail overnight until he got someone to e-mail them a copy of his passport.

What exactly that proved I don't know but they have to turn them over to the BP and I don't think BP would have been impressed.

Anyway, people who don't live near the Mexican border won't be happy until there are BP agents daisy-chained along the border and there is a 20 foot high fence with machinegun turrets along the entire length of it.



And just in case you think it couldn't get any more stupid, here is a Congressional hearing into the threat posed by Canada: Canada Border Control | User Clip | C-SPAN.org

Re: Border Patrol
 

Wanted to see the trike. :nod:

Re: Border Patrol
 

Bottom line if you are a US citizen those checkpoints are unconstitutional and you can refuse to answer any questions or be subject to unlawful detainment, for right or wrong. There was a youtube video of someone going through and basically telling them to sod off.

Re: Border Patrol
 

If you are a US Citizen they just wave you through. Yes you show proof but you have to show ID for lots of reasons so why should it worry you to just comply

Re: Border Patrol
 

And the point of copping an attitude is what exactly?

I get caught up in daylight police or sheriff's checkpoints every couple of years or so. I wind down the window, we exchange pleasantries while the officer glances at my license. Sometimes a second officer is round the back looking at my vehicle's tag. Then I go on my way. :) .... Why would anyone want to be an ärse about it? :confused:

Re: Border Patrol
 

Because it is their right?

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Has anyone ever seen a DUI road block like they have in England or is it unconstitutional?

Re: Border Patrol
 

So given a choice between 30 seconds of pleasantries and going on your way, or picking an argument with someone who can detain you and make life difficult, "picking an argument" looks like a good idea? :confused: (Yes I know it is "a right", I guess it's good to know that people are fighting for the right to be a jerk. :rolleyes:)

Re: Border Patrol
 

DUI checkpoints are apparently common in NC. I have never seen one, but the Monday news on the radio often reports the results of weekend DUI checkpoints. I don't know that they run every weekend, but they are certainly frequent.

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:lol:

That would mean people either not drinking and driving or having to take public transport....neither of which would be allowed to happen...

Plus, well around here at least, a lot of the drinking establishments are pushed to the edges of town, where you can't walk to them because the towns don't mind people driving drunk home, but they don't like to see them staggering around town on foot.

Re: Border Patrol
 

I didn't say it was a good idea...just that it is their right.

Just like people have a right to go stomping into a restaurant armed to the teeth.

They do it because they can, not because it's sensible.

Re: Border Patrol
 

There were a couple of people who were arrested for impeding a federal officer performing his duties not long ago. I doubt the charges will stick, I think they did it because they got tired of people making Youtube videos.

Re: Border Patrol
 

I used to find it strange the amount of alcohol people would drink at work and then get in their cars and drive home. I don't remember any employer in the UK giving free beer on a regular basis.

It was nice sometime to just go and grab a beer from the fridge to go with my packed lunch.

Re: Border Patrol
 

The Supreme Court says otherwise:


"The Border Patrol's routine stopping of a vehicle at a permanent checkpoint located on a major highway away from the Mexican border for brief questioning of the vehicle's occupants is consistent with the Fourth Amendment, and the stops and questioning may be made at reasonably located checkpoints in the absence of any individualized suspicion that the particular vehicle contains illegal aliens."


https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../543/case.html

Re: Border Patrol
 

Its less about picking an argument with the individual cop whose just there doing his job, and more about the principle around it. Travelling freely around my own country I should not ever be stopped and required to provide proof of my nationality. In fact this never happens in Canada.

DUI stops are a full different beast, and actually, in Canada they are unconstitutional but ruled to be a reasonable exception due to public safety. That said, if you don't feel like waiting behind everyone else going through the stop, you can make a u-turn and the worst that's gonna happen is a cop will pull you over directly and do the check. If I notice them before I turn down the road i'll go in another direction just to avoid the delay.

Re: Border Patrol
 

If you tried a U turn before a RBT here you'd have a car after you in seconds because they'd assume you are a) drunk, b) drugged up or c) both. Only a fool would try it.

Re: Border Patrol
 

I welcome the work that CBP and the police (city, sheriff's dept, state, and FBI/DEA, etc.) do, and am always happy to cooperate at a checkpoint. In some respects I wish there were more checkpoints.

FWIW I have never been asked about my nationality, though one cop once noted my "out of town" accent. Driving an F250 probably helps with my cover. ;)

Re: Border Patrol
 

Yeah, if i'm stuck in the line, i'm stuck, i wouldn't turn around, but in Ontario anyways they can't charge you with anything if you aren't actually drunk, they can just pull you over and if they determine you aren't they will let you on your way. However if I can see it down the street and there is an intersection before the checkpoint i'll turn to go around it.

That it probably does :lol:

I just don't like the idea of being impeded by any police stop/investigation/checkpoint/etc when I myself have done nothing wrong and just want to go about my business with the least involvement from the state as possible.

Re: Border Patrol
 

My personal problem with checkpoints is that you could put checkpoints on any given road on the face of the planet and question people and turn up all kinds of illegal activity.

Why focus on the border with Mexico? Why not the border between say, California and Oregon?

Border Patrol is effectively limited to operating within 100 miles of the border (expedited removal zone), which means 90% of the State of Florida but 0% of Utah.

Why not just have ICE set up checkpoints on I-15 in Utah? Why do they have to go through all the hassle of waiting for an immigration court to issue a removal order?

Very slippery slope.

The one that really blew my mind was the BP checkpoint north of Tombstone, I didn't see a single vehicle with Mexican plates waiting in line. Totally pointless. It was all tourists.

And I've been through "mobile" checkpoints near the Canadian border, equally pointless, but then they justify it by saying that so and so had an ounce of marijuana in his RV or something equally stupid.

Which is in fact what they do at Coutts as well, "we caught a guy with a revolver in his RV who was going to Alaska". Wow. I feel much safer.

Hopefully the UK will vote to "remain" in the EU because if it leaves, there is no chance of N America ever doing away with all it's crazy border bullshit.

Re: Border Patrol
 

Why you should just roll down your window,

Re: Border Patrol
 

At Christmas time and other major holidays the local police set up DUI checkpoints.

I'm all for it since it is a good way to catch drunks and those without any auto insurance or driving on suspended licenses or with outstanding warrants

Re: Border Patrol
 

check points are indeed constitutional, to say otherwise is ignorant.

Are DUI Checkpoints Unconstitutional?

Re: Border Patrol
 

the amoubt of ignorance in this quote is huge, dont even know where to start.

Re: Border Patrol
 

It may have been ok'd by the Supreme Court, but I do consider it an infringement to be pulled over and potentially asked to prove US citizenship. When I got my naturalization certificate, nobody said that I need to carry it or a US passport around. I'm sure Border Patrol is salivating over the completion of RealID as a way of circumventing many of those issues. It'll be all fun and games once they find out how many New Mexicans do not have birth certificates.

Then again, as someone who's had a TSA numbnut reject both my NM license, and a federal ID for an internal flight, sometimes you just need to argue it out.

Re: Border Patrol
 

Try.

Re: Border Patrol
 

They are not unconstitutional. There is a border patrol checkpoint about two miles west of Tombstone Arizona and the Border Patrol survey all cars heading north from Tijuana on the 405. There must be a whole lot more along the southwest border

At Christmas time, New Years, Thanksgiving our local police set up DUI checkpoints. The drivers are asked the license number of their cars and they've caught car thieves this way. They don't ask for driver license or registration, just a glance inside the car and a wave on. I guess they have ways of knowing if someone has been on the sauce or not

Re: Border Patrol
 

There is a checkpoint on the Oregon-California border operated by the California Department of Agriculture. You cannot bring fruit or vegetables into California from another State.

It's a known fact that some illegals. are smuggled across the border in the trunks of cars. They told me to pop the trunk lid of my car when I was stopped at the checkpoint near Tombstone.

Naturally when crossing into Canada the first thing they ask about is firearms

Re: Border Patrol
 

I'll be in El Paso next week, so I could visit the Border Patrol Museum!

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You bet if there was a checkpoint on the Ontario/Quebec border checking for "illegal" booze people would be upset. Even the Canadian charter guarantees free movement between the whole country and that would be inhibiting it. The American constitution guarantees the same thing.

Re: Border Patrol
 

The California Court of Appeals has found that agricultural checkpoints are constitutional: PEOPLE v. DICKINSON 104 Cal.App.3d 505

Just because you think that something should be unconstitutional doesn't mean that it is. You ought to learn more about US law prior to offering your guidance as to what is or isn't constitutional.

Re: Border Patrol
 

That case is a perfect example of what is unconstitutional about them. Fine, i'll concede that a plain view search is acceptable. But the law says that you need a warrant to search the whole vehicle. So if the officer asks me to open my trunk I can say "no, you need a warrant to do that".

Re: Border Patrol
 

Canadians on the internet don't get to decide what is constitutional or unconstitutional. That job is left to higher-level American courts.

If you want to say that you wish that these things were unconstitutional, then that's one thing (and I would agree with you.) But your representations of what actually is unconstitutional are completely wrong and you should stop saying it.

The courts have ruled that these checkpoints don't violate the Fourth Amendment. It is highly unlikely that these cases will ever be overturned, so no amount of hope or internet vigor is likely to change this.

Re: Border Patrol
 

I'd be screwed. I can never remember my plate. It's a crap combo of number and letters that don't roll off the tongue. I can remember the old plate and the one we had when we lived in Maine though :o

Re: Border Patrol
 

Me too, I have to use my VIN number more than my license plate. When it goes in for a service, insurance etc everyone wants the VIN