theOAP

Alan Pugh (Labour), a sometimes Deputy Minister and Minister in the Welsh Assembly, is currently out of a job. In an effort to be re-elected, he has offered the following proposal in the Alternative Queens Speech:

A finance (UK citizens overseas) bill

"At present, British citizens working – or lurking – overseas can claim non-resident status and avoid making any contribution to the Exchequer. They remain eligible for consular assistance or to return home for NHS treatment.

My bill would require all such United Kingdom citizens to file a tax return listing worldwide income and allowable reliefs."

"One final provision: any UK citizen not wishing to pay their contribution could simply engage in a perfectly legitimate act of tax avoidance by a process of renouncing their citizenship, surrendering their passport and with it the right of abode in the UK."

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/201...queens-speech/

A response on Twitter to Mister Pugh mentioned the number of US expats that were relinquishing citizenship due to similar legislation in the States. Mister Pugh's response was:

"those who renounce citizenship to avoid supporting the NHS & schools are not really the sort of people we want as citizens"

https://twitter.com/Alun_Pugh/with_replies

In the spirit of fair political commentary, George Osborne has also expressed interest in such legislation.

Those in agreement with Mister Pugh may want to tweet their approval of a jolly good suggestion.

Those who disagree may want to tweet the twit and suggest he's bonkers.

All sane people may want to ignore the whole thing.

sir_eccles

Worth noting that not all expats can get consular assistance. Dual Uk/us citizens in the US can not be assisted. Furthermore the only ones who can relinquish citizenship are dual citizens. Many are not.

Bob

What a bellend.

sir_eccles

Another thought beyond calling him names (which is fair).

Does anyone know how much the US actually collects from US expats? After tax treaties and people just not being aware they are meant to file, I can't believe it is a huge amount.

Owen778

Two questions:

What is your actual objection to the idea? I don't think I agree with it, but calling him "insane" seems a bit of a stretch.

2. I think any analysis would also have to cover the benefit of reducing emigration of skilled US citizens to countries where there is no tax treaty.

ChocolateBabz

As a non-Uk-resident I didn't think I was entitled to NHS treatment?

sir_eccles

It's bad enough having to file one set of tax returns.

The root of my question is what is the cost/benefit of enforcement? Yes, on the plus side it is unlikely to affect low income people beyond the cost of filing. Sean Connery is probably quaking in his boots. But I think part of the umbridge is with his attitude and manner in presenting it.

I keep thinking of potential questions. One wonders if there would be any different treatment between say a British expat in Europe compared to one in the US.

hoffage123

The UKIPisization (is that a word) of British Expats - now we are to join the ranks of 'shifty' people who are out to rob our former country of a pound or two. Sheesh. Well, that is if you believe the likes of that fellow who is proposing this daft idea.

What an idiotic idea. Grr. Double grr.

Bink

I thought that too. I thought it was restricted to UK residents. I'm not sure that I benefit in any way by being a British Citizen abroad other than the ability to move back to the UK (and then start paying taxe etc again) should I so wish.

Giantaxe

You're entitled to emergency treatment, just like any other visitor, citizen or not. There are also some exceptions that allow treatment for non-emergencies, but in general non-emergency treatment is not an entitlement for non-resident citizens.

I'm also curious as to why he thinks non-resident citizens should pay for UK schools.

md95065

You aren't - but, as far as I know, you can easily re-establish your UK residence any time that you want to - and then, a few months later, decide to leave again.

mikelincs

Correct, but there are a lot of UK expats, living overseas, who still return to get treatment on the NHS, and also many whom still claim benefits by means of still having a UK address, which may well be a parent or sibling, if caught these people should also suffer prosecution for helping people to cheat the system.

Steve_

I think what he means is they go abroad to Spain or wherever, then they get seriously ill, come back to the UK and re-establish residency and claim on the NHS even though they haven't been paying taxes for years. So the NHS did not benefit from those taxes.

Clearly the logical solution is to do what the US has done and not have a nationalized healthcare system.

Although thinking about it, perhaps that's the reason why people move back to the UK...

mikelincs

no, they don't re-establish residency, they just stay with family, get treated, then go back.. no intent of moving back, just milking the NHS

sir_eccles

Just reread his proposal. Interesting tie in to receiving a pension. Does it mean if you don't file UK taxes no more pension despite having paid in.

You know on retrospect, if his whole proposal had been to stop corporations funneling their profits overseas I wouldn't have minded so much. But it's the usual thing, attack the easy low hanging fruit and leave the big boys who actually make a dent in the deficit. Can't have those benefits scroungers getting food stamps but that big multinational corporation is fine not paying any corporation tax.