Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...less-camp.html

I know we tend to joke about California and its issues, I did spend some time in Berkeley and think I drove through this area a long time ago, may have gone to the Home Depot.

It was a long time ago and the area was not wonderful then but is it really now as bad as the New York Times says?

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Several years ago my son involved himself in the affairs of the homeless of Oslo, Norway. He told me that most of the people were mentally unstable and/or drug addicts, and neither of those groups were genuinely capable of fending for themselves. I'd guess that that's the situation of the homeless in Oakland and elsewhere in the USA. That might go part of the way to explaining the apparent newness of some (not many, of course) of the cars in the photos. It would be interesting to how the local bureaucrats deal with the incapable ones, as opposed to the capable ones.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Meanwhile Bay Area home prices, particularly in SF, are off the scale. Of course, there's a connection there. Combine that with the lack of a reasonable social safety net, and you've got a huge problem. Particularly poignant is that one of those featured is someone who lost their home and job in one of CA's wildfires and now is living in this encampment.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Pretty similiar in Vancouver here. Housing is crszy high, incomes that dont match cost of living and well while there is some safety net its insufficient. If on social assistance or disability for example you only get $375 per month to cover housing, average 1 bed apartmemt is 1,500 plus a month so if disabled or on social assistance only really 2 options live in an SRO and have nothing left or have some money and be homeless.

The wait list for social housing is so long there is no way the government can fund and build enough to meet demand.

We are going on 5 years on the wait list, we are lucky that we have housing but we only do due to help from MIL otherwise we would potentially be in a tent city.

Plus all the car dwellers and such who are homeless but less visible.

Doesnt seem to be any city along the west coast that doesnt have some level of a homeless and housing problems.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

A few people from that area have said that they have voted for substantial tax increases but very little has been done to help, if anything the situation gets worse.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I spend a lot of time in the area for work, and my understanding is that whilst the money does go on services, the services themselves then become a draw for people which just perpetuates the cycle.

People need services and the money funds them, but it's a self-sustaining problem which just can't be fixed with ever larger increases in funding.

It's incredibly difficult to help people that don't want to be helped, or in some cases are mentally ill to the extent that they don't know they actually need help, and I don't think the State is necessarily in a position to obtain guardianship over people and force assistance on them.,

I don't have any answers either, but it's incredibly complex.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Well as I was told and I do not have first hand experience, they tax increases were sold as a solution to the issue.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Again, this is not a poverty issue. It has nothing to do with the high price of real estate in California. The vast majority of homeless people are not able-bodied folks who are down on their luck, they are mentally ill and/or drug addicted. Local policies in certain municipalities have encouraged migration and / or perpetuation of homelessness in those areas. Read more here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#4983b67c5a61

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I have come across 4 people in Colorado I know by name who are living or have lived in their vehicle. In this situation there are bound to be some but maybe not many.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I'm calling BS on this.
I work with people relocating to Austin. So many relocating from Bay Area due to high housing costs - and these are people working in tech, with v good salaries that would struggle to afford a home in SF, that are looking at 1.5hours commute each way even on v good salaries.
I'm beginnign to see the housing costs rise ++ in Austin now. It's scary. House prices in certain areas +15-20% in the last year. Apartments $1800+ for a 1 bed just outside downtown. $2.5K downtown.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I'm calling BS on your BS calling. No doubt many priced-out Californian techies are moving to TX, but the article cites 44,000 homeless, and specifically references mental conditions. Homelessness is far more of a poverty issue than a lifestyle issue.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I would think the homeless most affected by housing costs are the working homeless, and those who have a disability and have disability income but said income is too low to pay for housing so they end up homeless, of course these groups make up a smaller % of the homeless and tend to be less visible especially the working homeless.

The mentally ill who receive little assistance or the addicts with no income are not really affected by housing costs they can't afford anything, its those who have a meager income most affected, even here if you can make 50,000 at least you can survive and do okay, under that and its tough, under 30,000 a year and its near impossible.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

It's easy to be poor in San Francisco, when $100K is considered low income. Low rent apartments are being sold and gentrified out of reach for someone one on $10/$15 per hr.
It's a mix of poverty and mental health not just one or the other, even Oakland is starting the process of gentrification.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Yes, definitely high real estate prices are an issue too. The solution for those (without health issues) who can't afford a city/area is to move. Places and prices evolve.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Assuming they have the money to finance a move, moving is not exactly cheap.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Not only cost, but also people often will lose what little support systems they have - friends, family etc - if they move.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Indeed. Many of those in addition to not being able to finance a move is why we don't move despite not being able to afford Vancouver. If lower skill its also incredibly hard to find a job in another city before moving, and moving without a job of course requires sufficient funds to not only cover the cost of the move, but deposits, and supporting yourself or family while you seek employment, low skill workers don't have the same level of mobility a more skilled person has.

Also lower cost of living areas tend to have lower wages, so while rent is lower, so are wages, when I was looking at a city in Atlantic Canada, rent was cheaper, but our income would drop substantially and in the end we would be no better off, and be in the same boat.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

There are many more that would be homeless if not for family. I have four grandchildren, my wife and I and their parents would never see them homeless. Both me grandsons have lived with us from time to time.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Yes, if not for my mom my nephew would be homeless due to some issues he is having with my sister, and my step sister would be is my dad and step mom were not able to house them.

One of the other reasons we stay in BC despite really nowhere affordable to rent is we have a safety net with disability which at least covers our rent, if we left for a cheaper province in Atlantic Canada that safety net would be gone, and if our current situation happened there we would certainly be homeless right now.

We could get lower rent in places in BC, problem is nobody will rent to you unemployed and on disability, and employers don't rush to hire low skill workers from distance so near impossible to line up employment, find a place, and move because low skill employers don't want to wait 2-3 months for a new employee to start, they want you to start right now.....

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

If I remember correctly we approved a quarter percent increase on our already high tax rate to build housing for the homeless. Not much appears to have been done although the politicians no doubt have the appropriate excuses on hand.

Oakland city council are considering a plan to house a few thousand homeless on a no longer used cruise ship

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

A read of the following link may throw some light on the current homeless crisis in San Francisco, a complex problem with no simple solutions.

Street Homelessness – Department of Homelessness and Supportive Housing

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

I work in education, we have several homeless kids at our school at any time. Many think of homeless as individuals, but many are families.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Many pregnant women also.

" We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ."?
"Some are more equal than others"
Some are disadvantaged in the womb

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

We're all created equal but we all think differently,

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

We certainly do, some have their own version of reality

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

and learn differently, something society refuses to accept and still thinks one size fits all education works and then wonders why some people fall behind and don't excel.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

... or this link might shed some light on the situation:
https://www.city-journal.org/san-francisco-homelessness
The left generally believes that homelessness is a result of amoral Darwinist capitalism and cruel apathy, enabled and abetted by stigmatization of the poor. The right generally believes homelessness is a result drug addiction, mental illness and laziness enabled and abetted by overly tolerant politicians. Pick your chosen narrative.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

How about more than a little of both? One might prefer one over the other, if they are blinded by a political ideology.

Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp
 

Related article.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/23/us/ho...E-F5HP812kLXfQ