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Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Old Dec 17th 2019, 7:17 pm
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Default Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...less-camp.html

I know we tend to joke about California and its issues, I did spend some time in Berkeley and think I drove through this area a long time ago, may have gone to the Home Depot.

It was a long time ago and the area was not wonderful then but is it really now as bad as the New York Times says?
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Old Dec 17th 2019, 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...less-camp.html

I know we tend to joke about California and its issues, I did spend some time in Berkeley and think I drove through this area a long time ago, may have gone to the Home Depot.

It was a long time ago and the area was not wonderful then but is it really now as bad as the New York Times says?
Several years ago my son involved himself in the affairs of the homeless of Oslo, Norway. He told me that most of the people were mentally unstable and/or drug addicts, and neither of those groups were genuinely capable of fending for themselves. I'd guess that that's the situation of the homeless in Oakland and elsewhere in the USA. That might go part of the way to explaining the apparent newness of some (not many, of course) of the cars in the photos. It would be interesting to how the local bureaucrats deal with the incapable ones, as opposed to the capable ones.
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Old Dec 17th 2019, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Meanwhile Bay Area home prices, particularly in SF, are off the scale. Of course, there's a connection there. Combine that with the lack of a reasonable social safety net, and you've got a huge problem. Particularly poignant is that one of those featured is someone who lost their home and job in one of CA's wildfires and now is living in this encampment.

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Old Dec 18th 2019, 4:06 am
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

1960's era faddish, unscientific efforts to de-institutionalize mental health treatment without creating or funding any sort of reasonable alternative was a really bad idea. Similarly, criminalizing drug addiction instead of treating it like the public health issue it truly is was also a spectacularly bad idea. This is not a "poverty" issue, it's a metal health treatment and drug addiction treatment issue.

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Old Dec 18th 2019, 10:17 am
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Meanwhile Bay Area home prices, particularly in SF, are off the scale. Of course, there's a connection there. Combine that with the lack of a reasonable social safety net, and you've got a huge problem. Particularly poignant is that one of those featured is someone who lost their home and job in one of CA's wildfires and now is living in this encampment.
Pretty similiar in Vancouver here. Housing is crszy high, incomes that dont match cost of living and well while there is some safety net its insufficient. If on social assistance or disability for example you only get $375 per month to cover housing, average 1 bed apartmemt is 1,500 plus a month so if disabled or on social assistance only really 2 options live in an SRO and have nothing left or have some money and be homeless.

The wait list for social housing is so long there is no way the government can fund and build enough to meet demand.

We are going on 5 years on the wait list, we are lucky that we have housing but we only do due to help from MIL otherwise we would potentially be in a tent city.

Plus all the car dwellers and such who are homeless but less visible.

Doesnt seem to be any city along the west coast that doesnt have some level of a homeless and housing problems.
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Old Dec 18th 2019, 1:47 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

A few people from that area have said that they have voted for substantial tax increases but very little has been done to help, if anything the situation gets worse.
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Old Dec 18th 2019, 2:02 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
A few people from that area have said that they have voted for substantial tax increases but very little has been done to help, if anything the situation gets worse.
I spend a lot of time in the area for work, and my understanding is that whilst the money does go on services, the services themselves then become a draw for people which just perpetuates the cycle.

People need services and the money funds them, but it's a self-sustaining problem which just can't be fixed with ever larger increases in funding.

It's incredibly difficult to help people that don't want to be helped, or in some cases are mentally ill to the extent that they don't know they actually need help, and I don't think the State is necessarily in a position to obtain guardianship over people and force assistance on them.,

I don't have any answers either, but it's incredibly complex.
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Old Dec 18th 2019, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Well as I was told and I do not have first hand experience, they tax increases were sold as a solution to the issue.
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Old Dec 18th 2019, 9:22 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Again, this is not a poverty issue. It has nothing to do with the high price of real estate in California. The vast majority of homeless people are not able-bodied folks who are down on their luck, they are mentally ill and/or drug addicted. Local policies in certain municipalities have encouraged migration and / or perpetuation of homelessness in those areas. Read more here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#4983b67c5a61
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Old Dec 18th 2019, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

I have come across 4 people in Colorado I know by name who are living or have lived in their vehicle. In this situation there are bound to be some but maybe not many.
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Old Dec 19th 2019, 1:26 am
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Again, this is not a poverty issue. It has nothing to do with the high price of real estate in California. The vast majority of homeless people are not able-bodied folks who are down on their luck, they are mentally ill and/or drug addicted. Local policies in certain municipalities have encouraged migration and / or perpetuation of homelessness in those areas. Read more here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#4983b67c5a61
I'm calling BS on this.
I work with people relocating to Austin. So many relocating from Bay Area due to high housing costs - and these are people working in tech, with v good salaries that would struggle to afford a home in SF, that are looking at 1.5hours commute each way even on v good salaries.
I'm beginnign to see the housing costs rise ++ in Austin now. It's scary. House prices in certain areas +15-20% in the last year. Apartments $1800+ for a 1 bed just outside downtown. $2.5K downtown.
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Old Dec 19th 2019, 1:52 am
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
I'm calling BS on this.
I work with people relocating to Austin. So many relocating from Bay Area due to high housing costs - and these are people working in tech, with v good salaries that would struggle to afford a home in SF, that are looking at 1.5hours commute each way even on v good salaries.
I'm beginnign to see the housing costs rise ++ in Austin now. It's scary. House prices in certain areas +15-20% in the last year. Apartments $1800+ for a 1 bed just outside downtown. $2.5K downtown.
I'm calling BS on your BS calling. No doubt many priced-out Californian techies are moving to TX, but the article cites 44,000 homeless, and specifically references mental conditions. Homelessness is far more of a poverty issue than a lifestyle issue.
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Old Dec 19th 2019, 4:07 am
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

I would think the homeless most affected by housing costs are the working homeless, and those who have a disability and have disability income but said income is too low to pay for housing so they end up homeless, of course these groups make up a smaller % of the homeless and tend to be less visible especially the working homeless.

The mentally ill who receive little assistance or the addicts with no income are not really affected by housing costs they can't afford anything, its those who have a meager income most affected, even here if you can make 50,000 at least you can survive and do okay, under that and its tough, under 30,000 a year and its near impossible.


Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm calling BS on your BS calling. No doubt many priced-out Californian techies are moving to TX, but the article cites 44,000 homeless, and specifically references mental conditions. Homelessness is far more of a poverty issue than a lifestyle issue.
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Old Dec 19th 2019, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm calling BS on your BS calling. No doubt many priced-out Californian techies are moving to TX, but the article cites 44,000 homeless, and specifically references mental conditions. Homelessness is far more of a poverty issue than a lifestyle issue.
It's easy to be poor in San Francisco, when $100K is considered low income. Low rent apartments are being sold and gentrified out of reach for someone one on $10/$15 per hr.
It's a mix of poverty and mental health not just one or the other, even Oakland is starting the process of gentrification.
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Old Dec 19th 2019, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: Among the Worlds Most Dire Paces: This California Homeless Camp

Originally Posted by johnwoo View Post
It's easy to be poor in San Francisco, when $100K is considered low income. Low rent apartments are being sold and gentrified out of reach for someone one on $10/$15 per hr.
It's a mix of poverty and mental health not just one or the other, even Oakland is starting the process of gentrification.
Yes, definitely high real estate prices are an issue too. The solution for those (without health issues) who can't afford a city/area is to move. Places and prices evolve.
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