Why not the GTP?

Old Jan 30th 2009, 5:58 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by saoghalbeag View Post
The GTP situation sounds like my experience of QTS in England...at least you can add to your quals and still have the chance to teach in Oz -because of the stupid 4 year rule for QTS in England I can never teach there again and (as you'd all probably understand given you have dreams of living abroad as well!) it has turned my whole world upside down.

Nevertheless, where there is a will there's a way and after 4 years of research, emails to nowhere and banging my head against brick walls I should be able to move back to the UK in a year or 2.

The PGCE is usually only about 9 months of study and I know a teacher who graduated and was able to work supply for the remainder of the year.

Also wanted to add for the poster asking if courses start in July - yes they definitely do start mid-year. It is also worth shopping around the unis - trying some of the more regional unis - as they can be more willing to accommodate you and help out with matching your existing quals with the course - they can also be cheaper!

Something that I don't think was mentioned for those on the GTP: I know it's not ideal, but what about working in childcare? The quals they have are Certificate and Diploma level and are designed so that they could eventually lead to a 4 year Bachelor of Education - so if the registration boards won't accept the GTP for standard teaching it should still be enough for teaching in a childcare setting (which can be kindergarten, preschool, preprep etc). It's a job at least, while you study etc? I don't think you can use it for migration though, but I might be wrong?

Good luck to everyone - I understand your frustration but don't let it put you off your plans!!!
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I came accross the childcare 'gateway' the other day so it's good to read your words of confirmation that this could definately be another option.
As you say, it's all so incredibly frustrating when you've worked so hard to get qualified as a teacher.
Good luck with your own situation and the pending move back to the UK. Glad you finally found a way!
R
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 8:33 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by Swerv-o View Post
They don't mention that the GTP is only accepted as a qualification in England and Wales anywhere on their site, and they do sell it as being a proper professional way into the profession.

This happened to a friend of mine, and also to me but in slightly different circumstances. You may want to look at the Master of teaching that is offered at RMIT (I think) and other providers which is considered an acceptable qualification, as a number of other posters have taken this route in the past. Have a look here:

Master of Teaching

It incorporates the Graduate Diploma in Teaching, and allows specialisations in early, primary or secondary roles. Plus if you did your GTP with a recognised university, then you may be able to claim some RPL for modules that you can demonstrate that you have passed at a tertiary level.

I did a PGCE at a College of FE instead of a Uni, and because it's not a tertiary institution I can't teach in Australia either. I bent over backwards trying to prove that it was the same course, leading to QTS etc, but they were having none of it. Sadly Australia is addicted to bureaucracy, rules and regulations, and the inflexibility they offer when a slightly non standard case comes along is staggering.

Good luck with it!


S
I haven’t log on in ages! I can't believe that NSWIT will not recognise a PGCE just because of where you trained?!? Something has to be done about this!

Since my last post I have found a really good job at a private high school in Sydney. I went for the interview told them that I qualified a different way ie. GTP, they wanted my experience and took me on. However I still had to get onto a distance education course and now have up to 4 years to qualify in OZ.

You can get work in private schools but the NSWIT are restricting the schools and saying that everyone must have proper quals. I was also offered casual work at a catholic school but again I had to get onto a DE course first. I know of a Kiwi teacher who has had to re-qualify and even an ozi guy the institute are stuffing around. The people that run NSWIT and government officials are the problem, they have no idea of what happens in the real world and are behind the times.

I have recently found out that I have got onto a BA of secondary education course with Charles Sturt uni. I only have to do half of the course because I sent in certified copies of proof of all of my teacher training, transcripts from uni etc. when I applied. Therefore they gave me credit. The only problem is that I have to pay International Student fees. I am slowing the course down by doing it PT and then for the first few years doing 1 subject a session. Which means, when I am a resident it becomes half of the price.

Ultimately this whole situation is crap! But there are ways around it. It means more money, more time and really selling yourself to the private schools! If they like you they will take you on. Once you are in the system it becomes easier.

I have decided that once I get through my second degree I will do an MA and focus on international relations/teaching or something and this problem needs to be changed!! I seriously have a goal of sorting this out. But I know it will take time.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by st79 View Post
I haven’t log on in ages! I can't believe that NSWIT will not recognise a PGCE just because of where you trained?!? Something has to be done about this!

Since my last post I have found a really good job at a private high school in Sydney. I went for the interview told them that I qualified a different way ie. GTP, they wanted my experience and took me on. However I still had to get onto a distance education course and now have up to 4 years to qualify in OZ.

You can get work in private schools but the NSWIT are restricting the schools and saying that everyone must have proper quals. I was also offered casual work at a catholic school but again I had to get onto a DE course first. I know of a Kiwi teacher who has had to re-qualify and even an ozi guy the institute are stuffing around. The people that run NSWIT and government officials are the problem, they have no idea of what happens in the real world and are behind the times.

I have recently found out that I have got onto a BA of secondary education course with Charles Sturt uni. I only have to do half of the course because I sent in certified copies of proof of all of my teacher training, transcripts from uni etc. when I applied. Therefore they gave me credit. The only problem is that I have to pay International Student fees. I am slowing the course down by doing it PT and then for the first few years doing 1 subject a session. Which means, when I am a resident it becomes half of the price.

Ultimately this whole situation is crap! But there are ways around it. It means more money, more time and really selling yourself to the private schools! If they like you they will take you on. Once you are in the system it becomes easier.

I have decided that once I get through my second degree I will do an MA and focus on international relations/teaching or something and this problem needs to be changed!! I seriously have a goal of sorting this out. But I know it will take time.
Also, before I left England the training body I qualified with had offered me an update of my course to a PGCE. They were given permission to do so and I would have had to pay extra fees for admin etc. But right at the last minute they had to pull out (another story).

However my point is; Teacher Training in UK know full well that this is a problem, they have had complaints. My training body said that officials were in talks about how the GTP can be improved to sort out the qualification. It just needs more people asking questions and pushing them. When you go on the course you have no idea that it isn't as academic as a PGCE but when you finish it people treat you differently.
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Old Nov 8th 2009, 11:08 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

I am currently living in the UK after a long time in China and was planning on doing my GTP before eventually going to work as a teacher throughout Europe (starting in Denmark). After finding out about the Australia situation I am now worried that this is the wrong route to be taking. Is it true that the GTP is ONLY accepted as a qualification in England and Wales?
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Old Nov 9th 2009, 2:12 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Emilytyerman
We have worked in International schools.
While a few International schools will employ GTP they prefer 4 year B Ed or PGCE (hubby did have colleague with GTP at an International School).

Ultimately they prefer B Ed or PGCE trained teachers, so you may still miss out on jobs abroad.

My advice if you really want to work abroad avoid the GTP route. Basically you cant work in Australia and it could be harder securing that International job.

Gems
PS, for those who think they can jump to childcare its not so easy. Gov are now wanting all nursery workers to have a Degree. This has already started and will be nationwide!
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Old Nov 9th 2009, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Yes you need 4 years of academic study and the GTP year is not academic enough apparently.... It appears from all my research over the last 18 months that your options are seriously limited, as are mine. I had been accepted to do a PGDE course in Perth as i was prepared to do it all again for 1 year, but pulled out at the last minute as I found out I had to do 2 yrs of Oz study to qualify for immigration which was too costly.... and just about gave up, when my sister (who lives in Perth) put me in touch with an agent over there.... If you apply for a family sponsor visa it is the 'bottom of the pile' visa and could take 2 years.... the agent I have spoken to said that I may be able to apply for a skilled sponsorship (which is marginally quicker) and use by qualifications and experience to teach vocational post 16.... so we are just holding our breath at the moment to see is this is possible?

I keep checking to see if Teaching Australia have changed their views.... but realistically that won't happen... wishful thinking won't get you in i'm afraid!
Good luck.
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Old Jan 17th 2010, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by Dobbsy View Post
Yes you need 4 years of academic study and the GTP year is not academic enough apparently.... It appears from all my research over the last 18 months that your options are seriously limited, as are mine. I had been accepted to do a PGDE course in Perth as i was prepared to do it all again for 1 year, but pulled out at the last minute as I found out I had to do 2 yrs of Oz study to qualify for immigration which was too costly.... and just about gave up, when my sister (who lives in Perth) put me in touch with an agent over there.... If you apply for a family sponsor visa it is the 'bottom of the pile' visa and could take 2 years.... the agent I have spoken to said that I may be able to apply for a skilled sponsorship (which is marginally quicker) and use by qualifications and experience to teach vocational post 16.... so we are just holding our breath at the moment to see is this is possible?

I keep checking to see if Teaching Australia have changed their views.... but realistically that won't happen... wishful thinking won't get you in i'm afraid!
Good luck.
Hi

I've been reading these posts with great interest today after stumbling upon the revelation that the GTP is not recognised as a suitable route to QTS for public (state) schools in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Scotland too.

I am currently working as a Higher Level Teaching Assistant in a Primary School, the purpose of which is to gain solid classroom experience before progressing to the GTP in September of this year. Having graduated from University four years ago, the financial and logistical benefits of the GTP route pretty much eliminated the PGCE route as a feasible option. Until today that is.

It has always been my intention to move abroad at some stage in my career and of course, Australia, NZ and Canada have always been destinations featuring high on the list. Now I find myself pondering the future once again with the revelation that the GTP is not considered a suitable route to QTS in these countries. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this are irrelevant to me at this stage, as time is of the essence and I need to complete applications to training providers as soon as possible.

Right now I am balancing one key choice in my mind - a) do I apply to go down the GTP route, knowing that this will affect future ambitions to work in one of the countries listed above in the future? Or; b) do I go down the PGCE route, an unfavoured option due its financial limitations, but recognised worldwide as an acceptable route to QTS?

Of course there are other questions that I am pondering, having read through so many posts. With these I would much appreciate some advice and guidance:

- is it feasible to do a Masters in Education in the NQT year? If so, would a Masters contribute to the 4 year academic 'quota' required of the countries listed above?

- similarly, would the pursuit of a Distance Education course with, for example, Charles Sturt University meet the requirements?

- are there any other options?!!!!

Jim
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Old Jan 17th 2010, 4:34 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Hi Jim,
Personally, I would do the PGCE. I did the GTP about 4 yrs ago, and am now a secondary technology teacher. When I chose to do the GTP I didn't know it was going to cut my options, and at the time I didn't question it as we weren't thinking of going anywhere anyway.... My sister moved to Perth during my GTP yr, we have been twice to visit and decided about 18 months ago to take the plunge too..... and to cut a long story short... its been a nightmare trying to get in. So yes.... looking back I wish I had taken the PGCE. I got £14k on the GTP and worked full time. The PGCE I believe is
£9k? but you are only at school for placements, and as we all know... being at uni full time... doesn't actually mean mon-fri 8.15 - 5pm, which is realistically full time teachers hours, plus marking, parents evenings etc... so on the PGCE you may be able to hold down a part time job to help fund it?

As far as a masters.... I believe Australia will only accept that as a 4th year if teaching placements are part of the course.... also your NQT yr is full on, and taking extra studies could be hard.


Some good news though...some universities offer a GTP with PGCE, so it would be worth ringing around... I think Nottm Trent do this?

I think you also need 3 years qualified work experience... I have looked into so many different options and get them muddled up but I think thats right.

I have now applied to go as a Vocational teacher, post 16. The agent thinks we have a good chance due to my work experience. We will have to wait and see??

Anyway, good luck... fingers crossed
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Old Jan 18th 2010, 10:52 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

I'd choose the PGCE route
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Old Jan 19th 2010, 2:49 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by jimbob0802 View Post
Hi

I've been reading these posts with great interest today after stumbling upon the revelation that the GTP is not recognised as a suitable route to QTS for public (state) schools in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Scotland too.

I am currently working as a Higher Level Teaching Assistant in a Primary School, the purpose of which is to gain solid classroom experience before progressing to the GTP in September of this year. Having graduated from University four years ago, the financial and logistical benefits of the GTP route pretty much eliminated the PGCE route as a feasible option. Until today that is.

It has always been my intention to move abroad at some stage in my career and of course, Australia, NZ and Canada have always been destinations featuring high on the list. Now I find myself pondering the future once again with the revelation that the GTP is not considered a suitable route to QTS in these countries. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this are irrelevant to me at this stage, as time is of the essence and I need to complete applications to training providers as soon as possible.

Right now I am balancing one key choice in my mind - a) do I apply to go down the GTP route, knowing that this will affect future ambitions to work in one of the countries listed above in the future? Or; b) do I go down the PGCE route, an unfavoured option due its financial limitations, but recognised worldwide as an acceptable route to QTS?

Of course there are other questions that I am pondering, having read through so many posts. With these I would much appreciate some advice and guidance:

- is it feasible to do a Masters in Education in the NQT year? If so, would a Masters contribute to the 4 year academic 'quota' required of the countries listed above?

- similarly, would the pursuit of a Distance Education course with, for example, Charles Sturt University meet the requirements?

- are there any other options?!!!!

Jim
I know someone who is doing a Masters of Education here in SA on a student visa which means they can still work 20hrs a week. Unfortunately, you do pay much higher fees.

Personally, I'd plump for the PGCE.


Good luck,
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Old Jan 28th 2010, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

So just to qualify , GTP is definately not accepted in state schools but private schools may?
We lived in Perth for 4 years and it's not like the UK in that there are many more private schools - at guess i'd say 50% were private to some degree.

Does anyone have experience of this ?
I've also been offered a GTP place , but with our dual citizenship and the likely hood of a return at some point in the future , might look into changing it even if it means taking a big drop in income.
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Old Jan 29th 2010, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

I don't know for certain but I could not even do TRT (supply) here in SA without having registration with the TRB - for the Indie I was offered a job with.

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Old Jan 31st 2010, 12:14 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Yes its the same in WA, to do work in private schools (even relief) you have to be registered with WACOT. Unfortunately WACOT won't recognise the GTP so you can't register with them
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by st79 View Post

Therefore I am enrolling on a BA of Teaching (Secondary) distance learning course as an international student (I am a Temporary Resident).

My recommendation to you, if you are serious about moving over is to enrol on a distance education course with Charles Sturt University in a BA of Teaching (secondary) or Primary. You can do it at your own pace take 1.5 yrs or up to 6 yrs if you like. There are some practical elements but sometimes you can get exemptions due to experience and prior training.

x
Hi,
I was really interested to read your post. I am planning on doing a GTP September 2011 as for economical and because of other family commitments i CANNOT do a PGCE on completion (july 2011)of my BA Hons (Spanish & Eng Lang). However we want to move to Oz (late 2013) and so was delighted to find information about ways around the aussie system. I was looking at the Charles Sturt uni BA in teaching (http://www.csu.edu.au/courses/education/#ug
third one down the list),
but it indicates the course is 4 year full time and i was wondering if i was looking at the wrong thing as you had mentioned it would only take 1.5 years(up to 6 flexibly). Is this not the same course you have enrolled on?

Bearing this in mind, is there even any point me even doing a GTP in England if i'm going to have to do a BA in education when i get to Oz??! (what i'm getting at is: is it really that worthless it will stand for no credit point transfer etc on the Charles Sturt course)

Thanks for any feedback you can give.

Sarah

Last edited by miss_morph; Feb 23rd 2010 at 6:02 pm.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Why not the GTP?

Originally Posted by miss_morph View Post
Hi,
I was really interested to read your post. I am planning on doing a GTP September 2011 as for economical and because of other family commitments i CANNOT do a PGCE on completion (july 2011)of my BA Hons (Spanish & Eng Lang). However we want to move to Oz (late 2013) and so was delighted to find information about ways around the aussie system. I was looking at the Charles Sturt uni BA in teaching (http://www.csu.edu.au/courses/education/#ug
third one down the list),
but it indicates the course is 4 year full time and i was wondering if i was looking at the wrong thing as you had mentioned it would only take 1.5 years(up to 6 flexibly). Is this not the same course you have enrolled on?

Bearing this in mind, is there even any point me even doing a GTP in England if i'm going to have to do a BA in education when i get to Oz??! (what i'm getting at is: is it really that worthless it will stand for no credit point transfer etc on the Charles Sturt course)

Thanks for any feedback you can give.

Sarah
Why don't you use your degree and do the Graduate Diploma in Education?
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