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Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Old Feb 2nd 2013, 6:19 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

I have recently foung out about the PGCEI and concerned that it is too good to be true.

I completed 2/3s of my PGCE in England two years ago but stopped due to illness. I since gained a job abroad in a Thai International school teaching KS3 and Special Ed - as mentioned, QTS isn't so important in the less pretigious international school.

I am now keen to progress, but need the full PGCE in order to do this. I heard about the PGCEI and met with a course director who was obviously telling me all the great things about it. I am interested as, back in England, it is now £9000 to do the PGCE (I have to start from scratch), and only £4000 as an employed teacher. However, although I plan to remain international for a couple of more years I would like to have the option to return home to England and teach. The course director said I "simply complete a course I have three months to do to gain QTS."

It is really that simple? What have other international schools said? Would I be able to return home to London and teach? Would you recommend it?

Thanks!
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 2:14 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Hi Heath,

If I were you I would have a look at the following link from the UK Department of Education Teaching Agency.

http://www.education.gov.uk/get-into...er-status.aspx

It is possible to teach in the UK with overseas qualifications, however you need to establish if this iPGCE (or PGCEi) would be accepted in the UK. Even if it is, you may still be required to obtain your QTS, and from memory would need to work in a UK school for an academic year to get this. The 'three months' mentioned by the Course Director seems to me very unlikely. I have a UK PGCE in the post-compulsory sector, which does not give me QTS, and have therefore investigated the different routes to QTS. Be very wary about what this guy is telling you, and do as much research as you can about using the qualification in the UK.

Best of luck, Claire.

Last edited by blueeyes; Feb 2nd 2013 at 2:15 pm. Reason: add information
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 2:20 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

p.s. As mentioned on the website, some of the new ACADEMIES springing up through the UK may not require you to have QTS, but that in itself does not reflect particularly well, so have a good think about your long-term options.
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Old Feb 3rd 2013, 4:25 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Hi Blue Eyes,

Well I messaged the course director with very specific questions and his werds were "You do a course for 3 months which gives you QTS/Most schools wouldn't accept this but some challenging schools, which you like, would."

I like challenging students having worked in Behaviour Management for a few years in SEN, but I don't want to be limited to failing schools for the rest of my life. I guess it is just go home, do my QTS.

I did 2/3s of my PGCE 2 years ago but had to stop due to a bereavement. I really didn't want to train anymore (PGCE secondary is intense!). I got a job in Thailand in a boarding school and have been allowed to teach KS3 English and SEN. Thing is, this is only going to take me so far. I would do a GTP if I go home, but even this is sooo competative. PGCE is far too expensive.

I don't particularly want to go back into that environment as a trainee (English schools), but guess I have to suck it up and do it if I wanna work abroad in a good school haha.

Thanks so much for your advice.
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Old Feb 3rd 2013, 1:46 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Hi Heath,

Glad to help and just wanted to add a few points.

If you feel you absolutely have to return to the UK and do your PGCE, is there no way you can finish the last 1/3 of your course? Have you spoken to the Course Director where you did it previously? (Forgive me if you have already done this, just a suggestion). I know there are quite a few routes to getting qualified, investigate all of them and you might save a bit of time and money. A school/training provider may take into account the fact you have done 2/3 of your PGCE. I also understand your fears about the UK secondary classroom, I worked on and off for about 4 years as a Supply Teacher (without QTS very easy to get agency work with a PGCE). However, since you have done SEN work, and have enjoyed the challenge, you may be absolutely fine. Also, 9 months goes very quickly, and as you say, it will broaden your opportunities.

(If you are really worried about secondary schools, what about doing the PGCE in primary? Still an intense course, but perhaps less behavior issues?)

Having read through the complete thread, I think you are making the right choice in not doing the iPGCE. None of the past trainees on the course seem to have come forward to testify about their experiences, and the guys' response about QTS shows a very cavalier attitude, not to be trusted.

Anyway, good to talk to you, good luck with your future teaching.
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Old Feb 3rd 2013, 2:10 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Hi there,

It isn't the classroom which is the problem - I used to work in behaviour management so I am not the least bit daunted by the challenge that students present. In training, that was all fine... it was my plannning that I found difficult. I have always found organising my ideas takes a while, but to organise objectives into a 6 week block is tough! My first mentor told me to copy everything which didn't help, then the 2nd said I had to do everything from scratch without any support. Also, it's just all soo intense; paperwork etc etc.
Working abroad, with a class with mixed ability, 2nd-language doing first language curriculum, 2 ADHD and 2 Autistic in one year 8 class, has shown me that I can enjoy it. It's still work, but out here you can enjoy it. Finding however many pieces of evidence to proove one QTS standard seems such a faff... but I'd have to just suck it up.

I am looking into a GTP - being fully immersed straight away would be great. I now have the problem of how would I get back for an interview if out here next year. I have contacts in schools back home/schools I used to work with, so that's fine in terms of references, but I'd have to fly home for interviews which would be tough. GTP would save me so much money.

Sadly, I cannot use my credits. I withdrew from the course so they mean nothing, even though the Dr said I should withdraw. I got 40 M level credits to my 60 as well haha. It's ok. I'd like to start from scratch with a new energy, more experience and more confidence. Living in Thailand really teaches you that silly little things, like "Oh my, I don't have quite enough worksheets" really isn't the end of the world! "Mai Pehn Rai" they'd said out here!

It'll all be fine. Just frustrating. Thanks again for all your advice/wise words - it's nice to hear from other people in the profession as I obviously can't talk to anyone at work!
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Old Feb 8th 2013, 8:54 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Doing a PGCE outside of Britain

Originally Posted by meandmrsjones View Post
Hello world. This is my first post.

I can answer most questions about the PGCEi. See below.

I'm so confused about the whole post graduate arena of study. Which one is best, most affordable and most useful? It really is a minefield! Just so know which angle i'm coming from, here's my backdrop.

I have...

(1) B.A Hons
(2) PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(3) CTLLS (Certificate to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(4) TESOL Trinity College London
(5) 8 years teaching ESL in Thailand and 1 year teaching ESOL and As/A2 Law in England (College).

I want: To get a job overseas (preferably Middle East or Japan) in an international school. I've been told about a whole raft of qualifications that are out there, but it's all confusing me. I just don't know which one to do. Some are unaffordable, some are not practical, some are not recognized overseas, some don't confer QTS, some do confer QTS....urgghh...

Here are the options.

(a) PGCE
(b) PGCEi
(c) GTP (Graduate Teacher Programme)
(d) ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University
(e) PGCE for Lifelong Learning (Colleges)

PGCE
Ideally, i think we would all agree that the PGCE is the most widely accepted and it attracts QTS. But it costs GBP 9000....! That's a non-started.

PGCEi
Costs GBP 3500. No QTS with this course. However, 3 or 4 ex-colleagues in Thailand acquired this qualification and all of them now work in 2nd Tier International Schools. One works in Japan and is earning about GBP 40,000 as a maths teacher...! The PGCEi can be done via distance learning via Nottingham Uni. It can also be done with cohorts in Bangkok, Lagos, Valencia, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur and Dubai.

GTP
Attracts QTS, GBP 16000 salary while you train, funding to cover the course fees (courtesy of TDA). Very competitive and the subjects on offer are not attractive (Religious Education, Sciences, Modern Foreign Languages) or relevant to my degree (Law). I teach and want to continue teaching English/ESOL/ESL......what's the point changing direction? Is there a way around this? Does anyone know of a GTP course suitable for English/ESL/ESOL teachers? Another problem with this GTP.....you have to find your own school to train at. I imagine this will be very difficult. Can anyone comment?

ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University.
This is a new one, which i saw for the first time yesterday. Costs GBP 1900. One year study. I don't think it attracts QTS. A friend of mine who's a Headmaster at an international school said that this qualification would not be recognized by most International Schools. Worthless, in other words. Does anyone agree/disagree?

PGCE (Lifelong Learning)
This seems to be a PGCE for teachers wishing to teach in colleges in UK. It's a bit knew to me. Does it get you QTS? IS is recognized abroad? How much does it cost? Will International primary/secondary schools accept it?

Sorry for such a long post, but it really is a minefield!!

Please help.....my head is spinning!

MeAndMrsJones....
XX

Hi Me&Mrs, and everyone else!

I guess I'm in a similar boat. I've just recently seen the IfL website, and I'm a bit confused about their explanations.

I guess I'd like to know the real value of QTLS and ATLS. Like Me&Mrs, I live outside the UK (in Japan) and I'm an ESOL/ EAP teacher.

I did the PTLLS and I'm getting my Trinity Dip this year (I hope!) So does anyone know if a Trinity Dip leads on naturally to QTLS, and whether a teacher can do it from outside the UK?

I'm very conscious of the fact that, at least in Japan, employers don't usually care about qualifications which aren't BEd/ PGCE/ MA etc. Even talking to prospective employers about the Trinity Dip meant that I had to explain it first to them.

I'm really happy to have found this forum, so any ideas: I'd love to hear them.

toastie
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