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WTF Murders/Killings in the US

WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Old Jun 3rd 2019, 6:42 pm
  #1996  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
A friend of my son's was shot and killed a couple of weeks after their high school graduation. Three other people he knew from school were shot and killed over a five-year period. Just saying. It's real. Arguments that pit one type of crime in one country against another type in another country cloud the issue - there is a very concrete and real and absolute large number of fatal shootings in this country. This needs fixing in its own right, and even if your rather dodgy assumption of causation regarding burglary rates were true, it most certainly does not justify not tackling the thousands of deaths, 40,000 or so per year - including suicides which tend to be very effective when committed by gun. What possible excuse is there for not attacking this problem?
Try prayer, wailing and hand wringing. One of them should work at least
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by chawkins99 View Post
I don't deny there is a problem but it is not as bad as many would have us believe. Sure, 40,000 is a big number but when taken in context, is still only a 1:10,000 chance. Now, stand on a street corner in Harlem with a sign saying "I hate n******s" will vastly increase your chance of meeting an untimely end. I try not to do that and stay out of high crime areas.

I don't know the solution but banning guns is not it. There are still guns in the UK (and Australia) but they are mostly in the hands of criminals who will always get them if they want them. Banning guns in the US is untenable due to the ingrained psyche of the people, not to mention the Constitution.

I have seen posts of people "terrified" to come to the US because of the fear of guns. That is no more logical than a fear of flying.
A safe place for the "terrified" to settle would be in North Dakota if they don't mind a bit of rough weather occasionally. The crime rate is extremely low and gun owners have the right to carry. Cant think why one should be connected to the other
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Gun Violence Awareness Day, Completely pointless and useless. Might be worth attending...
I half expected that to say "Might be worth attending if they were giving away free guns"
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I half expected that to say "Might be worth attending if they were giving away free guns"
I would have gone.
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 9:47 pm
  #2000  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
A friend of my son's was shot and killed a couple of weeks after their high school graduation. Three other people he knew from school were shot and killed over a five-year period. Just saying. It's real. Arguments that pit one type of crime in one country against another type in another country cloud the issue - there is a very concrete and real and absolute large number of fatal shootings in this country. This needs fixing in its own right, and even if your rather dodgy assumption of causation regarding burglary rates were true, it most certainly does not justify not tackling the thousands of deaths, 40,000 or so per year - including suicides which tend to be very effective when committed by gun. What possible excuse is there for not attacking this problem?
I knew two people, to talk to, not just read about in the news, in the US who were murdered. I also know two killers, again to talk to, in fact more than that, though I wouldn't call them friends, who are currently in prison for having killed three people (in aggregate - they are unknown to each other and committed their killings at different times in different counties), but despite that I consider myself to be at pretty low risk of being attacked or killed. Ironically the two killers I know in the US used a 2x4 and a kitchen knife to commit their killings.

FWIW I also knew someone in the UK who was murdered. Of course that was with a knife - I heard he had his throat cut!
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
A friend of my son's was shot and killed a couple of weeks after their high school graduation. Three other people he knew from school were shot and killed over a five-year period. Just saying. It's real. Arguments that pit one type of crime in one country against another type in another country cloud the issue - there is a very concrete and real and absolute large number of fatal shootings in this country. This needs fixing in its own right, and even if your rather dodgy assumption of causation regarding burglary rates were true, it most certainly does not justify not tackling the thousands of deaths, 40,000 or so per year - including suicides which tend to be very effective when committed by gun. What possible excuse is there for not attacking this problem?
While I dont know anyone who was murdered with a gun, when I was 13 my grandmother ended her life with one, and that same year 2 friends from school did the same, when I was 9 or 10, I woke up in the morning and there was a hole in the wall by my bed, it was a bullet hole, police found the bullet lodged in the wooden headboard. There had been a gang shooting not far from our house that night and the bullet was linked to that.

I had a gun pulled on me 10 or so years ago when riding the trolley in San Diego going to work.

I am not a fan of guns at all.
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Old Jun 3rd 2019, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I half expected that to say "Might be worth attending if they were giving away free guns"
I knew people who were murdered, and people who murdered people, but hey, I know a lot of people. I was looking for the Michael Moore clip where he has a trash can full of guns and is trying to give away free guns to people going north from the US to Canada, and couldn't find it. I did, however find this, watched the whole thing (rare) and liked it.
Opinions may differ.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 12:54 am
  #2003  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

52 shootings in Chicago last weekend.

I know 3 people who have died this year, all in vehicles.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 4:08 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
52 shootings in Chicago last weekend.

I know 3 people who have died this year, all in vehicles.
95 percent if not all in the black neighbourhoods for sure. But you cant go there harassing the gangbangers because that's racial prejudice and the next thing you know there'll be protests and even riots (always a good excuse to do a little looting while it lasts) and soon after some self serving, opportunistic twat politician will be on the media spouting off about police brutality and why is this all directed at the African American community (Well duh maybe because all the white Anglo gangs are gone from Chicago). I could imagine Liz Warren making her voice heard. .Waving her arms around "This has got to stop" So the Mayor chickens out, the cops all leave and next weekend 50 more dead because Leroy and Company find it easier to deal drugs and pimp young girls and fight over turf than try to earn a living otherwise.. This country is so up it's own ass it's beyond belief.

Last edited by dc koop; Jun 4th 2019 at 4:15 am.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 7:22 am
  #2005  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by chawkins99 View Post
I don't deny there is a problem but it is not as bad as many would have us believe. Sure, 40,000 is a big number but when taken in context, is still only a 1:10,000 chance. Now, stand on a street corner in Harlem with a sign saying "I hate n******s" will vastly increase your chance of meeting an untimely end. I try not to do that and stay out of high crime areas.

I don't know the solution but banning guns is not it. There are still guns in the UK (and Australia) but they are mostly in the hands of criminals who will always get them if they want them. Banning guns in the US is untenable due to the ingrained psyche of the people, not to mention the Constitution.

I have seen posts of people "terrified" to come to the US because of the fear of guns. That is no more logical than a fear of flying.
Yet again, no one has suggested banning guns. Not in the US, not in the UK and not in Australia. The word you were looking for was 'control' which has quite obviously worked in the UK and Australia.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:20 am
  #2006  
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Yet again, no one has suggested banning guns. Not in the US, not in the UK and not in Australia. The word you were looking for was 'control' which has quite obviously worked in the UK and Australia.
Why not then control knives?
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:27 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
While I dont know anyone who was murdered with a gun, when I was 13 my grandmother ended her life with one, and that same year 2 friends from school did the same, when I was 9 or 10, I woke up in the morning and there was a hole in the wall by my bed, it was a bullet hole, police found the bullet lodged in the wooden headboard. There had been a gang shooting not far from our house that night and the bullet was linked to that.

I had a gun pulled on me 10 or so years ago when riding the trolley in San Diego going to work.

I am not a fan of guns at all.
Sorry to hear this.

I am not a fan of an armed society that views its weapons as a way to settle arguments and grievances, to manage human relationships (everyone, from coppers to homeowners, to people in gangs, to "freedom" advocates, to alienated teenages, and more), as a legitimate way to manage property, and as a way to just get what it wants overall. Weapons have become woven into the fabric of the things that are wrong in this country (and there are many things that are right) and now nobody knows how to step it back and there are many powerful and wealthy interests who don't want us to. Koop wants martial law (for some, not himself presumably), others want yet more weaponry, and still others are quibbling over what kind of gun people should be allowed to use to kill each other with (or themselves). 40,000 people year, a wealthy and powerful country - and yet apparently we can do nothing.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jun 4th 2019 at 10:36 am.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:33 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post

I know 3 people who have died this year, all in vehicles.
I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the family of my son's 18-year-old friend who was killed because he was at a block party when some people decided to drive by and spray them with gunfire.
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:35 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Sorry to hear this.

I am not a fan of an armed society that views its weapons as a way to settle arguments and grievances, to manage human relationships (everyone, from coppers to homeowners, to people in gangs, to "freedom" advocates, to alienated teenages, and more), as a legitimate way to manage property, and as a way to just get what it wants overall. Weapons have become woven into the fabric of the things that are wrong in this country (and there are many things that are right) and now nobody knows how to step it back and there are many powerful and wealthy interests who don't want us to. Koop wants martial law (for some, not himself presumably), others want yet more weaponry, and still others are quibbling over what kind of gun people should be allowed to use to kill each other with (or themselves). 40,000 people year, a welathy and powerful country - and yet apparently we can do nothing.
So what do you want to happen?
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Old Jun 4th 2019, 10:46 am
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Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
So what do you want to happen?
Excellent attempt - if you can't describe the solution you shouldn't complain.

I have described my thoughts before - most of them start with making a genuine policy effort to tackle lack of economic opportunity, decent education, and housing. Second, start scaling back the culture of weapons. Nobody - nobody - needs the vast array of immensely powerful weaponry that can be easily bought in this country. Stop selling them. Nationally, not state by state. Nor does it need to be that easy to buy any sort of any weapon. Ever. On a national level, not state by state. Third, act to stop the immense flow of guns from the US to points south. It's a huge business and is responsible not only for vast amounts of crime but also part of the ready availability of illegal weapons. Fourth, legalize, regulate and tax street drugs to reduce the gangs' business structure and treat addiction as a social problem, not a crime. Other countries have done it.

Now, you go ahead and poke holes in this - because I'm sure there are many since it is in no way a simple problem - and use that as a reason why nothing should be done at all. Knock yourself out.
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