Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

WTF Murders/Killings in the US

WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Old Nov 29th 2018, 7:18 am
  #1936  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 5,647
dc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
It was about why you thought it punitive. Sorry to have confused you with a question.

But since you suggest there's no connection, aren't you one of those fools that makes a connection to car accidents so ban cars too?
Of course there's no connection to car accidents as any fool like yourself seems to know already.

What I don't like are heavy handed overreaching governments who treat the public like a bunch of irresponsible school kids. Those gun owners who kept firearms in their homes (few as they probably were in the UK at the time of Dunblane) were treated as such. Obviously those gun owners must have been thoroughly vetted in the first place before they were allowed the weapons so why act all stupid after a single act of mass shooting to assume that because of that they could no longer be trusted not to do a Dunblane themselves.

Six words: : Hysteria, Paranoia. Nanny State, cloddish bureaucrats
dc koop is offline  
Old Nov 29th 2018, 10:49 am
  #1937  
BE Forum Addict
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 3,829
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Of course there's no connection to car accidents as any fool like yourself seems to know already.

What I don't like are heavy handed overreaching governments who treat the public like a bunch of irresponsible school kids. Those gun owners who kept firearms in their homes (few as they probably were in the UK at the time of Dunblane) were treated as such. Obviously those gun owners must have been thoroughly vetted in the first place before they were allowed the weapons so why act all stupid after a single act of mass shooting to assume that because of that they could no longer be trusted not to do a Dunblane themselves.

Six words: : Hysteria, Paranoia. Nanny State, cloddish bureaucrats
They weren't, that's the point, licensing left as an also-ran function of police activity did not work and both the killers had "tells" that should have had them under greater scrutiny. So, two points from this: Firstly what was the public appetite for creating a better process and was there funding for it that would not deplete resource elsewhere? Secondly, if these two had "slipped the net", how many others and what is the risk and cost of having to play catch-up once a more rigorous is in place? The option taken avoided both questions..... hardly "stupid". I'm not justifying the bans and I don't support them, but I can see why it happened.

If governments don't regulate, who does? How come you are happy that the "heavy handed overreaching government" insist on regulating driving to protect the public, or regulate what you can or can't kill, but not that they come between you and your toys? Currently, in the UK, you are in big trouble if caught on the street with a knife and without an obvious reason to have one with you - this is a reaction to the rise in knife crime. As a Boy Scout in the 60s I regularly carried a hunting knife, a Finnish skinning knife and an hatchet on my belt...... these days I'd be off the streets in five minutes! Those were different times and attitudes have changed. Are you suggesting that this is wrong? That those who are stabbed are just the victims of "rogue elements" (so sorry, wring hands, send flowers)? That cracking down on the casual carrying of knives is "stupid"? Are the police wrong to attempt to remove the cause of the injuries? Are the government wrong to implement changes in the law to support them?

I think you are infected by the same paranoia that you claim to see around you - an overriding fear of "heavy handed overreaching governments" and the belief that you know better. Meanwhile, the victims of this attitude are buried every day and next to nothing changes. Your choice, but don't blame other people for calling this "stupid".
macliam is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 1:21 am
  #1938  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 5,647
dc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
They weren't, that's the point, licensing left as an also-ran function of police activity did not work and both the killers had "tells" that should have had them under greater scrutiny. So, two points from this: Firstly what was the public appetite for creating a better process and was there funding for it that would not deplete resource elsewhere? Secondly, if these two had "slipped the net", how many others and what is the risk and cost of having to play catch-up once a more rigorous is in place? The option taken avoided both questions..... hardly "stupid". I'm not justifying the bans and I don't support them, but I can see why it happened.

If governments don't regulate, who does? How come you are happy that the "heavy handed overreaching government" insist on regulating driving to protect the public, or regulate what you can or can't kill, but not that they come between you and your toys? Currently, in the UK, you are in big trouble if caught on the street with a knife and without an obvious reason to have one with you - this is a reaction to the rise in knife crime. As a Boy Scout in the 60s I regularly carried a hunting knife, a Finnish skinning knife and an hatchet on my belt...... these days I'd be off the streets in five minutes! Those were different times and attitudes have changed. Are you suggesting that this is wrong? That those who are stabbed are just the victims of "rogue elements" (so sorry, wring hands, send flowers)? That cracking down on the casual carrying of knives is "stupid"? Are the police wrong to attempt to remove the cause of the injuries? Are the government wrong to implement changes in the law to support them?

I think you are infected by the same paranoia that you claim to see around you - an overriding fear of "heavy handed overreaching governments" and the belief that you know better. Meanwhile, the victims of this attitude are buried every day and next to nothing changes. Your choice, but don't blame other people for calling this "stupid".

How is the knife control working? Would I have to register a Swiss knife if I were to buy one? It appears to me that a knife is probably one of the easiest things to hide on one's person and no doubt that observation is already well known. X-ray machines on stops signs and street lights? "Constable stop that man. He's carrying a penknife in the left pocket of his pants"

Seriously there cannot be any meaningful regulation of firearms if the gun lobby hold so much power in Congress. Any idea of the amount of money the NRA contribute to politicians? The brightest prospect though is that America is changing and attitudes with it. The younger generation are more educated then ever previously. I believe that eventually there will be some effective control over firearms (but I might add law abiding gun owners protected) it will be well in the future when the young of today start to move into the halls of power. Meanwhile and tragically there will be more murders and more shootings. If nothing happened after Sandy Hook and Las Vegas what would it take?

Last edited by dc koop; Nov 30th 2018 at 1:27 am.
dc koop is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 1:36 am
  #1939  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,444
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

I think currently most people feel reasonably secure about their Constitutional Rights, I would expect that with the build up to 2020 the situation may change.
Boiler is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 2:28 pm
  #1940  
BE Forum Addict
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 3,829
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
How is the knife control working? Would I have to register a Swiss knife if I were to buy one? It appears to me that a knife is probably one of the easiest things to hide on one's person and no doubt that observation is already well known. X-ray machines on stops signs and street lights? "Constable stop that man. He's carrying a penknife in the left pocket of his pants"

Seriously there cannot be any meaningful regulation of firearms if the gun lobby hold so much power in Congress. Any idea of the amount of money the NRA contribute to politicians? The brightest prospect though is that America is changing and attitudes with it. The younger generation are more educated then ever previously. I believe that eventually there will be some effective control over firearms (but I might add law abiding gun owners protected) it will be well in the future when the young of today start to move into the halls of power. Meanwhile and tragically there will be more murders and more shootings. If nothing happened after Sandy Hook and Las Vegas what would it take?
Can you not reply without exaggeration? Are you completely out of touch with things in the UK? I was quite careful to say " if caught on the street with a knife and without an obvious reason to have one with you" so your ridiculous questions are just an attempt to demean the actions being taken to combat a scourge which mainly affects youths - shame on you. "How is the knife control working?", well, obviously not well enough - but at least the families of the victims can see that some action is being taken ..... and, oddly, there are few complaints from people completely unaffected by the crackdown.

Your comments on the NRA and their money and influence are interesting. Presumably you would be OK with Putin using his money and influence to impact the workings of government, eh? Nothing to do, so do nothing..... never was there a truer example of Edmund burke's comment "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" meanwhile you claim to support some gun control and wring your hands at the thought of future victims - yet you consistently poo-poo any suggestions that might work towards a solution. Well done.
macliam is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 7:25 pm
  #1941  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 5,647
dc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Can you not reply without exaggeration? Are you completely out of touch with things in the UK? I was quite careful to say " if caught on the street with a knife and without an obvious reason to have one with you" so your ridiculous questions are just an attempt to demean the actions being taken to combat a scourge which mainly affects youths - shame on you. "How is the knife control working?", well, obviously not well enough - but at least the families of the victims can see that some action is being taken ..... and, oddly, there are few complaints from people completely unaffected by the crackdown.

Your comments on the NRA and their money and influence are interesting. Presumably you would be OK with Putin using his money and influence to impact the workings of government, eh? Nothing to do, so do nothing..... never was there a truer example of Edmund burke's comment "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" meanwhile you claim to support some gun control and wring your hands at the thought of future victims - yet you consistently poo-poo any suggestions that might work towards a solution. Well done.
the first comment on knives was tongue in cheek. Attempt at humour wasted

Gun control......You may have suggestions that could work given the situation as I have previously describe. Lets hear them .
dc koop is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 8:31 pm
  #1942  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,444
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
the first comment on knives was tongue in cheek. Attempt at humour wasted

Gun control......You may have suggestions that could work given the situation as I have previously describe. Lets hear them .
I guess you would start with amending the Constitution.
Boiler is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 8:49 pm
  #1943  
BE Forum Addict
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 3,829
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I guess you would start with amending the Constitution.
No need - automatic weapons were banned without amendment, weren't they? Concealed carry without a permit is also illegal, isn't it?

As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the 2nd to suggest that assault-style semi-autos, bump stocks and home-made suppressors, etc. are covered. You may know better, of course..... I somehow think mass killings would be less likely if flintlock muskets (or pistols) were used......

Pre-authorisation for purchase and licensing might sail closer to the wind - but "the right to bear" is not infringed unless either are denied...... and I presume there would be good reason for that. Nobody suggests that prisoners should be allowed arms, so presumably there is scope for some "people" to be excluded.

I'm hardly an expert on US constitutional law, but I find it hard to believe that nothing can be done.
macliam is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 8:59 pm
  #1944  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,444
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No need - automatic weapons were banned without amendment, weren't they? Concealed carry without a permit is also illegal, isn't it?

As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the 2nd to suggest that assault-style semi-autos, bump stocks and home-made suppressors, etc. are covered. You may know better, of course..... I somehow think mass killings would be less likely if flintlock muskets (or pistols) were used......

Pre-authorisation for purchase and licensing might sail closer to the wind - but "the right to bear" is not infringed unless either are denied...... and I presume there would be good reason for that. Nobody suggests that prisoners should be allowed arms, so presumably there is scope for some "people" to be excluded.

I'm hardly an expert on US constitutional law, but I find it hard to believe that nothing can be done.
Well there was no TV Radio or Internet but they have been deemed to be covered by the Constitution.

But answering your other points:

1. Not sure what assault style means.
2. Bump stocks I could see might fall in the auto category and are a minor issue anyway.
3. I have not heard of home made suppressors being an issue, in fact in the UK they are not a regulated item I believe.
4. I can only speak for my State but you need to pass the background check to buy, so pre authorisation.
5. The Constitution can be amended hence my comment.

Last edited by Boiler; Nov 30th 2018 at 9:02 pm.
Boiler is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2018, 10:17 pm
  #1945  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,455
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Grand Jury indicted the Dallas cop for murder from the shooting of the man in his apartment in September.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dallas...arge-1.4927937
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old Dec 1st 2018, 12:34 pm
  #1946  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 63,728
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Grand Jury indicted the Dallas cop for murder from the shooting of the man in his apartment in September.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dallas...arge-1.4927937
Good.
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Dec 1st 2018, 7:30 pm
  #1947  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 5,647
dc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond reputedc koop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No need - automatic weapons were banned without amendment, weren't they? Concealed carry without a permit is also illegal, isn't it?

As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the 2nd to suggest that assault-style semi-autos, bump stocks and home-made suppressors, etc. are covered. You may know better, of course..... I somehow think mass killings would be less likely if flintlock muskets (or pistols) were used......

Pre-authorisation for purchase and licensing might sail closer to the wind - but "the right to bear" is not infringed unless either are denied...... and I presume there would be good reason for that. Nobody suggests that prisoners should be allowed arms, so presumably there is scope for some "people" to be excluded.

I'm hardly an expert on US constitutional law, but I find it hard to believe that nothing can be done.
Oh something is done. Demonstrations For a week and a half after each shooting. bags of thoughts and prayers and then it's forgotten. I live in a predominantly Republican community. Perhaps there a good percent of people who own firearms of one sort or another but the only shooting that's happened was back in the 1990s when one of our cops was killed while trying to stop a holdup at a supermarket. He's the only police fatality since the police department was founded in 1911. I'm not apathetic to the problems with guns and the criminals who have them but it's not one of the problems I've had to deal with since being in this country. I don't have to worry about knifings either. We could argue back and forth until kingdom come but I've done with my input on this particular segment.
dc koop is offline  
Old Dec 1st 2018, 7:40 pm
  #1948  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,444
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Landlord Tells Harvard Student to Move Out Over Legally Owned Guns

Roommates searched room for guns after finding MAGA hat

https://freebeacon.com/issues/landlord-tells-harvard-student-move-legally-owned-guns/

This bit was particularly amusing:

"A few weeks ago, I came back to my apartment from a weekend trip and was confronted by one of my roommates who asked if I had guns in the house," she told the Free Beacon. "After being told far too many lies to count, my roommates finally admitted that they searched my closet, under my bed, and all of my drawers in pursuit of finding my guns."

While she was given several different explanations for why the roommates entered and searched her room, the 24-year-old said she felt her political beliefs and where she is from played a significant role in the roommates' actions.
Boiler is offline  
Old Dec 1st 2018, 7:49 pm
  #1949  
Fair and balanced
 
kimilseung's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 13,705
kimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond reputekimilseung has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post

Landlord Tells Harvard Student to Move Out Over Legally Owned Guns

Roommates searched room for guns after finding MAGA hat

https://freebeacon.com/issues/landlord-tells-harvard-student-move-legally-owned-guns/

This bit was particularly amusing:

"A few weeks ago, I came back to my apartment from a weekend trip and was confronted by one of my roommates who asked if I had guns in the house," she told the Free Beacon. "After being told far too many lies to count, my roommates finally admitted that they searched my closet, under my bed, and all of my drawers in pursuit of finding my guns."

While she was given several different explanations for why the roommates entered and searched her room, the 24-year-old said she felt her political beliefs and where she is from played a significant role in the roommates' actions.
I am sure we all applaud the lack of regulation on landlords that allow them to choose who they let stay in their property!
kimilseung is offline  
Old Dec 1st 2018, 7:51 pm
  #1950  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,444
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: WTF Murders/Killings in the US

Well there are State and Federal laws that seek to combat discrimination.
Boiler is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.