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Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Old Nov 26th 2019, 2:05 pm
  #196  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Whisht now, you naughty nordie you..... your English masters are not taking WITH you, they are talking AT you!!

After all, how could you possibly know what you are - you're celtic!!


You know what the worst part is, every time Ancestry update their DNA information, I lose more of my Ireland/Scotland and gain more 'Great Britain'. I really am Celtic Fringe now

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
My prod friend from Northern Ireland (the same one who thinks that NI voted to leave) thinks she is British.
She is, as far as being a citizen of the UK. The 'British' being talked about here is as it relates to being from the island of 'Great Britain', which she isn't. At least that's my take on the last few pages anyway.

But, assuming she isn't 14 years old and was born in NI, the Irish government also recognizes her as a citizen by birth as well. Dual nationality was a big part of the Good Friday Agreement, even though the Brits seem to have forgotten all about that for the time being.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 2:10 pm
  #197  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post


You know what the worst part is, every time Ancestry update their DNA information, I lose more of my Ireland/Scotland and gain more 'Great Britain'. I really am Celtic Fringe now



She is, as far as being a citizen of the UK. The 'British' being talked about here is as it relates to being from the island of 'Great Britain', which she isn't. At least that's my take on the last few pages anyway.

But, assuming she isn't 14 years old and was born in NI, the Irish government also recognizes her as a citizen by birth as well. Dual nationality was a big part of the Good Friday Agreement, even though the Brits seem to have forgotten all about that for the time being.
You'll wake The Mushrooms up....
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 2:15 pm
  #198  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
You'll wake The Mushrooms up....
I checked this handy website, and it seems like that was inevitable anyway
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 9:19 pm
  #199  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post


You know what the worst part is, every time Ancestry update their DNA information, I lose more of my Ireland/Scotland and gain more 'Great Britain'. I really am Celtic Fringe now



She is, as far as being a citizen of the UK. The 'British' being talked about here is as it relates to being from the island of 'Great Britain', which she isn't. At least that's my take on the last few pages anyway.

But, assuming she isn't 14 years old and was born in NI, the Irish government also recognizes her as a citizen by birth as well. Dual nationality was a big part of the Good Friday Agreement, even though the Brits seem to have forgotten all about that for the time being.


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Old Nov 26th 2019, 9:21 pm
  #200  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Poor kid.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 10:22 pm
  #201  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
PS, Steve - our past prescribes our future.
I agree to the extent that we need to remember the past in order not to repeat it, but to be consumed by it isn't helpful at all. As an Englishman, I find myself defined by and abused for the actions of my forbears in the eyes of many Scots, Irish and to a lesser extent the Welsh, and if I arc up it's all passed off as banter but the simmering resentment there is palpable. Most Englishmen I know just want to walk away from the world stage and get on with their lives, but then I don't know anyone from the ruling classes, which are the people that you should be directing your criticism at if you're going to give it. Look at the current situation, do you honestly think the UK government holds English shit kickers in higher regard than Celtic shit kickers?
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:12 pm
  #202  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I agree to the extent that we need to remember the past in order not to repeat it, but to be consumed by it isn't helpful at all. As an Englishman, I find myself defined by and abused for the actions of my forbears in the eyes of many Scots, Irish and to a lesser extent the Welsh, and if I arc up it's all passed off as banter but the simmering resentment there is palpable. Most Englishmen I know just want to walk away from the world stage and get on with their lives, but then I don't know anyone from the ruling classes, which are the people that you should be directing your criticism at if you're going to give it. Look at the current situation, do you honestly think the UK government holds English shit kickers in higher regard than Celtic shit kickers?
Steve, I think you have been conditioned by some of the more recent "nationalist" antics - and the funny thing is, as an Irish nationalist, so have I, in some people's eyes. However, my game is over, Ireland is its own state and I have no designs on the 6 counties (although I would like to see my country reunited). I firmly believe that the future is down to the people of the 6 counties, as SoS knows, so I'd rather attract them than coerce them and fight the Anglo-Irish war all over again. I grew up in a country that had been ruined by that and subsequent events and it took more than 50 years for it to recover. Due to that, I came to use my skills in England because there was no place for them at home at that time (late 70s) and I have been happy whilst here and made many friends of all nationalities .... even English, believe it or not!! So the attempts to categorize me as some kind of arch-provo are laughable..... but never, ever try to back me against a wall! You boys can certainly gang up against anyone who disagrees with you, but whilst other celts who still have skin in the game may have their own champions, I'm not amongst them - I neither know their history in sufficient detail nor have any real reason to support them.

So, I don't want to blame you, or anyone else, for actions carried out as part of the imperial past, that leads nowhere - but, and it's a big but, I also can't sit idly by whilst people post utter tripe about things they have no real knowledge about. The problem is that such misinformation fuels ongoing issues today - but if I dare to counter the "banter", I am accused of "hate" or "having a chip on my shoulder", when often, the shoe is on the other foot. So while it may well be galling to be reminded of things done in the past, what was done had consequences that still apply today and it is incredibly dangerous when those consequences are merely shrugged off. I don't expect you to feel guilty or to apologise, but it's time we all accepted the truth, not the propaganda. I'd remind you that several pages ago I merely called out incorrect terminology - and despite all the twists and turns, that's all I've tried to do. You came in a bit late and got caught in the flak, so apologies if you fell it was undeserved. Now SoS has provided his view (and he and his fellow nordies are the only ones whose views really count) so that should really be an end to it.
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 12:32 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Steve, I think you have been conditioned by some of the more recent "nationalist" antics - and the funny thing is, as an Irish nationalist, so have I, in some people's eyes. However, my game is over, Ireland is its own state and I have no designs on the 6 counties (although I would like to see my country reunited). I firmly believe that the future is down to the people of the 6 counties, as SoS knows, so I'd rather attract them than coerce them and fight the Anglo-Irish war all over again. I grew up in a country that had been ruined by that and subsequent events and it took more than 50 years for it to recover. Due to that, I came to use my skills in England because there was no place for them at home at that time (late 70s) and I have been happy whilst here and made many friends of all nationalities .... even English, believe it or not!! So the attempts to categorize me as some kind of arch-provo are laughable..... but never, ever try to back me against a wall! You boys can certainly gang up against anyone who disagrees with you, but whilst other celts who still have skin in the game may have their own champions, I'm not amongst them - I neither know their history in sufficient detail nor have any real reason to support them.

So, I don't want to blame you, or anyone else, for actions carried out as part of the imperial past, that leads nowhere - but, and it's a big but, I also can't sit idly by whilst people post utter tripe about things they have no real knowledge about. The problem is that such misinformation fuels ongoing issues today - but if I dare to counter the "banter", I am accused of "hate" or "having a chip on my shoulder", when often, the shoe is on the other foot. So while it may well be galling to be reminded of things done in the past, what was done had consequences that still apply today and it is incredibly dangerous when those consequences are merely shrugged off. I don't expect you to feel guilty or to apologise, but it's time we all accepted the truth, not the propaganda. I'd remind you that several pages ago I merely called out incorrect terminology - and despite all the twists and turns, that's all I've tried to do. You came in a bit late and got caught in the flak, so apologies if you fell it was undeserved. Now SoS has provided his view (and he and his fellow nordies are the only ones whose views really count) so that should really be an end to it.
I haven't been conditioned at all, I fully accept that some of my forebears were colossal *****. However I don't wear the guilt of their actions around my neck as some of my fellow Englishmen feel they need to. My thing is, you look through history, and it's only ever us shit kickers who cop a flogging. The Lord's and ladies generally joined in with the oppression of their own people. I sound like a revolutionary here, but you talk about divide and conquer, that's precisely what has been done with the working classes of each home nation, there is more in common between the working classes of England, Scotland Ireland and Wales than with their own gentry.
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 12:55 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Poor kid.
He wishes Noddy had paid the ransom, but instead, he's stuck with Big Ears....
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 2:19 am
  #205  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Apart from the otherwise-extinction of NI-based/landed aristocrats' seats in the HoL, why can't we let go of NI?
I love the Irish and want the best for all sides. I wonder what is the point of Northern Ireland remaining in control of the UK when the demographics of Northern Ireland has changed dramatically. Young people don't care about the past problems between the south and the north and soon a majority in the north will be equally both major religions. Again, young people do not care about marrying someone from their region of their area. I think it's time for Ireland to reunite.
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 9:03 am
  #206  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I haven't been conditioned at all, I fully accept that some of my forebears were colossal *****. However I don't wear the guilt of their actions around my neck as some of my fellow Englishmen feel they need to. My thing is, you look through history, and it's only ever us shit kickers who cop a flogging. The Lord's and ladies generally joined in with the oppression of their own people. I sound like a revolutionary here, but you talk about divide and conquer, that's precisely what has been done with the working classes of each home nation, there is more in common between the working classes of England, Scotland Ireland and Wales than with their own gentry.
Fair do's - as I already said, no need for guilt, but a need for recognition. Nobody is snow white, Irish regiments did their share of fighting for the empire and I abhor those "old comrades" who followed O'Duffy to fight for Franco. Equally, by no means all of the IRA were driven by nationalism, any more than their "Loyalist" opponents were. NI was created by chaos and self-interest, but it is what it is - and only the people who live there can change it.
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 11:45 am
  #207  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Most sensible people would probably agree wholeheartedly with your first sentence.

To be honest, you should have just left it there.
Why? Collins and de Valera fought a good fight. Who would say otherwise?
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Old Nov 27th 2019, 1:16 pm
  #208  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
...Nobody is snow white...
Ahem...





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Old Nov 30th 2019, 7:33 pm
  #209  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Apart from the otherwise-extinction of NI-based/landed aristocrats' seats in the HoL, why can't we let go of NI?
No wonder I was confused I thought you were talking about National Insurance!!
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Old Nov 30th 2019, 11:49 pm
  #210  
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Default Re: Why do we need to hang on to NI, anyhow?

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
No wonder I was confused I thought you were talking about National Insurance!!
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