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What has p*ssed you off today...part II

What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Old Jul 19th 2019, 9:45 am
  #7411  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
A good friend of mine topped himself last night. Here's the only place I can express how much of a **** I think he is without upsetting anyone. He had his demons, but his wife stuck with him through thick and thin, I don't think I'll ever forgive him for doing this to her.
Topped himself? Clearly not a good friend if that's how you describe his death.
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
So sorry to hear this.
These acts are normally very selfish without consideration for the loved ones and I can imagine you're outraged !
Lots of strenght for the family and you.
No, these acts are in fact not 'selfish'. They are the decisions to end one's suffering.

As the parent of a 20 year old who died of suicide on 2 August 2016, I find the assertion that he was "selfish" or "topped himself" disgusting and extremely upsetting. My child was NOT selfish in the least. He was a young man whose suffering became more than he could bear. If he had died of cancer not a single soul would have said he was "selfish" for letting go when the pain became too much. Until you have a loved one who chooses death over a life filled with pain I would suggest you keep your judgement of things you don't know a thing about to yourself.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 10:01 am
  #7412  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Topped himself? Clearly not a good friend if that's how you describe his death.

No, these acts are in fact not 'selfish'. They are the decisions to end one's suffering.

As the parent of a 20 year old who died of suicide on 2 August 2016, I find the assertion that he was "selfish" or "topped himself" disgusting and extremely upsetting. My child was NOT selfish in the least. He was a young man whose suffering became more than he could bear. If he had died of cancer not a single soul would have said he was "selfish" for letting go when the pain became too much. Until you have a loved one who chooses death over a life filled with pain I would suggest you keep your judgement of things you don't know a thing about to yourself.
I'm very sorry I upset you and brought back bad memories.
Maybe I should have said they can be very selfish, I don't know.
Each case is different I suppose.

My sister did this exact thing and I am still very angry about it. The whole family has tried to help her for years.
The pain she caused to my mother and us is still very much in my head.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 10:10 am
  #7413  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Topped himself? Clearly not a good friend if that's how you describe his death.

No, these acts are in fact not 'selfish'. They are the decisions to end one's suffering.

As the parent of a 20 year old who died of suicide on 2 August 2016, I find the assertion that he was "selfish" or "topped himself" disgusting and extremely upsetting. My child was NOT selfish in the least. He was a young man whose suffering became more than he could bear. If he had died of cancer not a single soul would have said he was "selfish" for letting go when the pain became too much. Until you have a loved one who chooses death over a life filled with pain I would suggest you keep your judgement of things you don't know a thing about to yourself.
This is one of the best posts on BE I've seen for a long time. I would be incandescent with anger if one of my friends had killed himself and then it was listed as 'topped himself'. People reach that point as what the consider is a lst resort, and fell, unfortunately, that they can't talk to anyone, this may be something to do with the old 'stiff upper lip' mentality that men are supposed to have. There is a huge discussion on twitter at the moment regarding the problems with mental health and the lack of resources to address the problem. To people that are left they may indeed theik of it as selfish, but for the person doing it it is a last resort and they feel it is the only way to end their problems. If you can talk to these people, and I speak as a former Samaritan, ghen getting them to think of the people they are leaving behind is one way to try and help them, but also getting them to look at what can be possible is also important.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 10:48 am
  #7414  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

No------- that is not the way to respond to Dorothy's post. I can remember reading her post when she lost her son.

When working as a GP I saw both 'sides' of this discussion, the unbearable pain of parents and siblings, the difficulties in understanding depression and other mental health issues. and lack of resources in the NHS.

Possibly used that 'term' to hide your own feelings but to accuse Dorothy is beyond thoughtless.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Jul 19th 2019 at 1:22 pm. Reason: Quote deleted
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 11:12 am
  #7415  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
No------- that is not the way to respond to Dorothy's post. I can remember reading her post when she lost her son.

When working as a GP I saw both 'sides' of this discussion, the unbearable pain of parents and siblings, the difficulties in understanding depression and other mental health issues. and lack of resources in the NHS.

Possibly used that 'term' to hide your own feelings but to accuse Dorothy is beyond thoughtless.
Its now 20 years since my Son left , as a GP, if I just write "Prozac" I'm sure you will understand , he was 22 !
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Let's all take a step back here. This is a subject with far too much pain attached to be subjected to a BE argument. I've seen it at close quarters too. Suggest we let it go.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 12:20 pm
  #7417  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Suicide is one of the most confusing things for those of us left behind. There's a mixture of anger, confusion, desperate sadness. It's hard to understand and we all struggle to come to terms with it, I know I did.

My nephew, age 26 took his own life also around 2016 after a long period of depression that it turns out he kept it bottled up and didn't talk to his loving family about it until it was overwhelming him. When he told them he was treated in the normal way that people with depression get treated these days - medicate and send them home. Some weeks later he woke his brother up in the early hours of the morning in a panicked state, telling him that he was having suicidal thoughts. His brother alerted their parents and they took him again to the doctor who prescribed more medications and once more sent him home. A week later the family woke up to find the son gone and a note which read "....Please don't worry, I'll be okay". Of course they were besides themselves with worry and their worst fears were confirmed when a policeman knocked on their door later that day to inform them that their kind, gentle and caring son had died, having thrown himself off the roof of a tall building.

A few years earlier, having studied mental illnesses myself in great detail in order to help my own child who once suffered from anxiety and depression, I am aware that mental illness presents illogical thoughts to sufferers, plenty hear voices tormenting them and telling them to do all kinds of things including suicide. Some see things that are not there and they perceive things irrationally too. Others suffer horribly dark thoughts. People can be so tormented by their symptoms and no-body else can quite see or understand their pain, that the only way out that they can see is to end it all. It's extremely rare indeed that people who end their own lives do so out of cowardice, selfishness, reckless, spite, or lack of consideration of those they have left behind - it is a very irrational thing and we who have never suffered from mental illness struggle to make sense of it.

Hey Steve, it's understandable for you to feel angry but please go easy on your mate's memory I'm sure he would have done everything in his power to keep going but in the end it must have all become too much for him. Stay strong mate.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 12:32 pm
  #7418  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Let's all take a step back here. This is a subject with far too much pain attached to be subjected to a BE argument. I've seen it at close quarters too. Suggest we let it go.
Yes. The unimaginable pain of people who truly feel that this is the only way to make that pain go away, and the lifetime of pain for those who loved them.

Steve, Dorothy, Lion, Ingles and Paul, if I could hug you all right now I would. You might call me a weirdo and tell me to piss off, but I'd hug you anyway

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Old Jul 19th 2019, 5:30 pm
  #7419  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
A good friend of mine topped himself last night. Here's the only place I can express how much of a **** I think he is without upsetting anyone. He had his demons, but his wife stuck with him through thick and thin, I don't think I'll ever forgive him for doing this to her.
I'm sorry for your loss, and I feel terrible that his wife and potentially children have to deal with this too, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss his death by insulting him either. I totally understand why you might want to, but you'll never know what he was dealing with, and what it was the drove him to take his life. You mentioned addictions, and that his father never saw him in the same light as the brother he just lost. Obviously his family failed him, at some point probably the system failed him and as much as his wife and his friends might have loved him, sometimes there is just nothing that can be done when someone reaches their lowest point and it sucks.

I'm not having a go at you, I really am sorry you lost your friend, I just hope you can remember him for who he was and not for how his death made you feel. Be there for his wife as much as you can, but please try to remember he didn't do this to hurt anyone either.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 6:01 pm
  #7420  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

I agree with you 100%.

I have lost a few close to me including a grandparent, and 2 uncles who ended their lives, I never considered them selfish for their decision, sure it was painful for us, and we miss them, but they were obviously struggling and it was their decision, not my place to judge them, and having been in the spot and having tried, when one gets to that point, the only thing really going through the mind is make the suffering stop, its not that one wants to die necessarily, but to just end the suffering.




Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Topped himself? Clearly not a good friend if that's how you describe his death.

No, these acts are in fact not 'selfish'. They are the decisions to end one's suffering.

As the parent of a 20 year old who died of suicide on 2 August 2016, I find the assertion that he was "selfish" or "topped himself" disgusting and extremely upsetting. My child was NOT selfish in the least. He was a young man whose suffering became more than he could bear. If he had died of cancer not a single soul would have said he was "selfish" for letting go when the pain became too much. Until you have a loved one who chooses death over a life filled with pain I would suggest you keep your judgement of things you don't know a thing about to yourself.

Last edited by Jsmth321; Jul 19th 2019 at 6:04 pm.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 6:56 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I'm sorry for your loss, and I feel terrible that his wife and potentially children have to deal with this too, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss his death by insulting him either. I totally understand why you might want to, but you'll never know what he was dealing with, and what it was the drove him to take his life. You mentioned addictions, and that his father never saw him in the same light as the brother he just lost. Obviously his family failed him, at some point probably the system failed him and as much as his wife and his friends might have loved him, sometimes there is just nothing that can be done when someone reaches their lowest point and it sucks.

I'm not having a go at you, I really am sorry you lost your friend, I just hope you can remember him for who he was and not for how his death made you feel. Be there for his wife as much as you can, but please try to remember he didn't do this to hurt anyone either.

I have heard suicide described, possibly by Anthony Bourdain but I'm not sure, as the end stage of an illness. I think that's very accurate in many, many cases.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 19th 2019 at 7:01 pm.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 7:15 pm
  #7422  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I have heard suicide described, possibly by Anthony Bourdain but I'm not sure, as the end stage of an illness. I think that's very accurate in many, many cases.
In many ways, it is.
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Old Jul 19th 2019, 8:13 pm
  #7423  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I have heard suicide described, possibly by Anthony Bourdain but I'm not sure, as the end stage of an illness. I think that's very accurate in many, many cases.
I agree. I actually think that taking one’s life is a very brave thing to do. I do feel very sorry for the loved ones who have to cope with the anguish/guilt etc.
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Old Jul 20th 2019, 1:11 am
  #7424  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
I agree. I actually think that taking one’s life is a very brave thing to do. I do feel very sorry for the loved ones who have to cope with the anguish/guilt etc.
Has anyone had suicidal thoughts, I have often thought as I get older it might be better than most end of life outcomes.

Hunter S Thompson thing.

" No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun – for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax – This won’t hurt."
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Old Jul 20th 2019, 3:56 am
  #7425  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I'm sorry for your loss, and I feel terrible that his wife and potentially children have to deal with this too, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss his death by insulting him either. I totally understand why you might want to, but you'll never know what he was dealing with, and what it was the drove him to take his life. You mentioned addictions, and that his father never saw him in the same light as the brother he just lost. Obviously his family failed him, at some point probably the system failed him and as much as his wife and his friends might have loved him, sometimes there is just nothing that can be done when someone reaches their lowest point and it sucks.

I'm not having a go at you, I really am sorry you lost your friend, I just hope you can remember him for who he was and not for how his death made you feel. Be there for his wife as much as you can, but please try to remember he didn't do this to hurt anyone either.
I do remember him fondly, right up until he did the deed. I speak as someone who stood at the end of a rope, for what seemed like an eternity, and the thing that stopped me was what it would've done to my wife and kids, I went through everything, convinced myself they'd be better off without me, and was only brought back from the edge by the thought of them and what it could / would do to their future. So yes, I do think it's the most selfish thing someone can do, they're not ending the pain, they're giving it to someone else.

This is the 4th bloke in my circle of mates and acquaintances to commit suicide, all with marital issues to varying degrees and to be honest I'm over it., 2 of them left 2 young children each, and it has etched away at my sympathy.

My wife is flying back for the funeral to be there for her, I'm kind of glad I can't get away, seeing her would break me.
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