Originally Posted by kimilseung

now we need a "What made me want to punch certain politicians in the face over and over again". It is sexual assault in the name of their religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

now we need a "What made me want to punch certain politicians in the face over and over again". It is sexual assault in the name of their religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

These may well be the same politicians who want to "liberate" other countries, especially their women, from oppressive religious law.

Oh, wait, that's only Muslim law,isn't it. Treating women as lesser beings is ok as long as it's done in the name of Christianity.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Both.

They aren't there for a pregnancy test, they are there for an abortion. They don't need an ultrasound pic. They don't need to "see" like that to perform a vacuum abortion. It is a forced, unnecessary procedure. The sole purpose of it is to produce the sound of a heartbeat, and/or a picture, that the woman may, depending on the state, be forced to listen to and/or look at. It isn't just a guilt trip. Depending on the circumstances of the abortion, it may be torment.

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer

I agree this is indefensible, but isn't this what all politicians are about? They all want to impose their own agenda and manipulate us, by guilt or some other emotion, into doing what they want. They play on our irrationalities. Right, left or centre, I don't trust a single one of the megalomaniacs.

Originally Posted by Sally Redux

I think we are dealing with a particularly intrusive agenda here though.

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer

You can separate religion and state, but you will never stop politicians believing they know, better than we do, what is best for us.

Originally Posted by dollface

Completely agree...............but it is not the vaginal probe that is the issue - it is under termination situations, but not for someone who intends to carry to full term.

Originally Posted by dollface

Completely agree...............but it is not the vaginal probe that is the issue - it is under termination situations, but not for someone who intends to carry to full term.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

No, but we aren't talking about people who intend to carry to full term. We are talking about women who present themselves for an abortion. Pregnancy will already have been established, and equally if it has not there are other ways to establish it. The vaginal ultrasound is the only way to pick up a foetal heartbeat that early in a pregnancy. That is why these people are doing that to their unwilling victims.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

time and a place, time and a place. A probe at that time in that place is an issue.

Originally Posted by dollface

yes it is and I agree there is no need to perform such an ultrasound prior to an abortion. Termination usually isn't, nor should be taken lightly, once that decision has been made after the appropriate counseling provided, then that, should be an end to it, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Not only is there no need, in these cases it would be a forced procedure (you don't get an abortion without one).

What would that be called if it were happening in Iran?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter

Not only is there no need, in these cases it would be a forced procedure (you don't get an abortion without one).

What would that be called if it were happening in Iran?

Originally Posted by dakota44

It wouldn't happen because you would likely be stoned to death first.