British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   UK immigration post Brexit (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/uk-immigration-post-brexit-929714/)

Shard Dec 8th 2019 3:40 pm

UK immigration post Brexit
 
Interesting discussion on LBC today regarding UK immigration post-Brexit (if we are unlucky enough to find ourselves there). BoJo's plan is the so-called "Australian style points system," which I believe is not that different from the Canadian and NZ points systems. One caller pointed out that many of the taxi/Uber drivers in Australia scored high on points, and are well qualified (engineers etc) but have been unable to secure professional employment once emigrating. Another caller pointed out, that the work visas that are being condidered in some job areas mean that individuals are tied to an employer and can effectively be subject to reduced rights or exploitation. Worth considering before we chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

amideislas Dec 8th 2019 4:42 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 
It's just another solution to what many consider to be a "problem". Every economy needs imported labour. Some will argue that only the ones that can be proven to benefit " us" should be allowed. Others (particularly employers) would say the more restrictive the immigration, the larger barriers we have in accessing the talent and labour needed for the job, which ultimately is a type of trade barrier, making them less competitive.

The basic issue for many is simply, too many foreigners. It has little to do with whether they're statistically a net positive or net negative. Nor that this discomfort with foreigners have anything to do with the EU.

So, this way or that way... It doesn't matter, because in reality, England will still need to attract talent and labour from outside its borders if it wants to continue to prosper, and therefore (provided England manages to avoid descending too far into the abyss) immigration will continue, even if under another name. Points system or not. It will just be yet another irritation for businesses to accept or move elsewhere. Along with the other problems you mention.

Shard Dec 8th 2019 4:50 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 
True, we've needed immigrants so far, but it is a case of how best to manage that. Given the aims of the EU project, it did seem the most pragmatic form of immigration.

Bipat Dec 8th 2019 4:52 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12775594)
Interesting discussion on LBC today regarding UK immigration post-Brexit (if we are unlucky enough to find ourselves there). BoJo's plan is the so-called "Australian style points system," which I believe is not that different from the Canadian and NZ points systems. One caller pointed out that many of the taxi/Uber drivers in Australia scored high on points, and are well qualified (engineers etc) but have been unable to secure professional employment once emigrating. Another caller pointed out, that the work visas that are being condidered in some job areas mean that individuals are tied to an employer and can effectively be subject to reduced rights or exploitation. Worth considering before we chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

I can't see that it will be much different from the present day Tier2 and Tier 5 work visas; except that there will be more of them and more categories.
Required salaries would need to be appropriate and not too high. Dependents financial requirements also realistic and also not too high.

Shard Dec 8th 2019 5:02 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12775625)
I can't see that it will be much different from the present day Tier2 and Tier 5 work visas; except that there will be more of them and more categories.
Required salaries would need to be appropriate and not too high. Dependents financial requirements also realistic and also not too high.

Fine, if you're a doctor, as I think you said your family had a number of. The caller was talking about his experience in the US, as a coder I think, something private sector, where he was very aware that his work permit was tied to a company, and therefore he was very aware he had to follow company demands or potentially lose his status. He wasn't able to easily switch employers as someone European can do now.

Bipat Dec 8th 2019 5:36 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12775628)
Fine, if you're a doctor, as I think you said your family had a number of. The caller was talking about his experience in the US, as a coder I think, something private sector, where he was very aware that his work permit was tied to a company, and therefore he was very aware he had to follow company demands or potentially lose his status. He wasn't able to easily switch employers as someone European can do now.

It is just the same for doctors in that a particular job has to be applied for----and junior jobs are for 6 months, and there would be gaps for a senior registrar etc to apply for a different job in their particular speciality.
At the moment a visitors visa is applied for while job searching.
Post Brexit these issues would be hopefully dealt with when the system is set up!!

Shard Dec 8th 2019 5:56 pm

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12775649)
It is just the same for doctors in that a particular job has to be applied for----and junior jobs are for 6 months, and there would be gaps for a senior registrar etc to apply for a different job in their particular speciality.
At the moment a visitors visa is applied for while job searching.
Post Brexit these issues would be hopefully dealt with when the system is set up!!

The difference is that NHS or a health service provider is less likely to mistreat a professional. The point being made is that conditional access to work in the UK has some downsides in terms of workers rights. Presenting work visa as an equivalency is incorrect, although many in the Brexit camp do just that.

Scamp Dec 9th 2019 5:52 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12775624)
True, we've needed immigrants so far, but it is a case of how best to manage that. Given the aims of the EU project, it did seem the most pragmatic form of immigration.

We'll always need immigrants, we'd just prefer they were white and American or French or German or just like us. Nothing too box-head, certainly nothing any shade darker than a Mediterranean tan and DEFINITELY nothing with a headscarf or foreign-language religion.

It's the Brexit way.

Thairetired2016 Dec 9th 2019 6:49 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12775624)
True, we've needed immigrants so far, but it is a case of how best to manage that. Given the aims of the EU project, it did seem the most pragmatic form of immigration.

You could offer something like the Austrians do: Rot-Weiss-Rot card. You can apply for it in your job category but you are not tied to an employer. All you need to find one who pays the required salary for your job to start off.
Your profession has to be on the "skills" list.

Red Eric Dec 9th 2019 8:27 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12775594)
Interesting discussion on LBC today regarding UK immigration post-Brexit (if we are unlucky enough to find ourselves there). BoJo's plan is the so-called "Australian style points system," which I believe is not that different from the Canadian and NZ points systems. One caller pointed out that many of the taxi/Uber drivers in Australia scored high on points, and are well qualified (engineers etc) but have been unable to secure professional employment once emigrating. Another caller pointed out, that the work visas that are being condidered in some job areas mean that individuals are tied to an employer and can effectively be subject to reduced rights or exploitation. Worth considering before we chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

It's been said before but unless those politicians and others insistent on wedging in the "Australian style" phrase explain exactly which aspects of that system they consider more suitable for the UK than either the current UK system for non EU nationals, or other regimes in use elsewhere, the strong suspicion is that they're using the phrase as a dog whistle, pandering to popular conceptions (or misconceptions) about Australia and immigration. And, more particularly of course, about asylum.

It might help to get them elected - and it's noticeable that the phrase has been resuscitated for use in this election campaign - but it would appear unlikely that any future UK system would be particularly consistent with the Australian one.

Bipat Dec 9th 2019 8:33 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12775853)
We'll always need immigrants, we'd just prefer they were white and American or French or German or just like us. Nothing too box-head, certainly nothing any shade darker than a Mediterranean tan and DEFINITELY nothing with a headscarf or foreign-language religion.

It's the Brexit way.

Are you being sarcastic?? That is the Remainer way!!!! :lol:



Expatrick Dec 9th 2019 9:52 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 
In reality the pattern established over the last couple of years will continue, albeit with a different regulatory background. EU immigration will continue to fall, non EU immigration will continue to rise. Does it matter? - only to those who demand a substantial reduction in total immigration.

amideislas Dec 9th 2019 10:05 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12775889)
Are you being sarcastic?? That is the Remainer way!!!! :lol:

ahh, yes, your unique "remainers are xenophobic" spin.

Apparently, leavers don't like any of them, which is a more "fair and balanced" kind of xenophobia.

Also, in their quest to incite it for political gain, they often conflated EU and non-EU immigration (see Farage poster, for example). So, I suppose you could say that's a fairer kind of xenophobia.


​​​​

Red Eric Dec 9th 2019 10:05 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12775910)
In reality the pattern established over the last couple of years will continue, albeit with a different regulatory background. EU immigration will continue to fall, non EU immigration will continue to rise. Does it matter? - only to those who demand a substantial reduction in total immigration.

We certainly don't hear too much about targets, quotas or caps these days, which is probably a good start.

amideislas Dec 9th 2019 10:22 am

Re: UK immigration post Brexit
 
There's two different schools of thought here. The realistic view, and the public view.

When they unleashed their anti-foreigner campaign as a means to "democratically" push forward their ideological platform, they hadn't taken into account the necessity for immigration. Nor the unlikelyhood of ever reaching such "targets ".

When that dissonance became apparent, they're now faced with having to backtrack what they've led the electorate to believe, and that's politically dangerous. So now, they have to play it down by avoiding those terms, while making more vague immigration promises that can be deflected later on.


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:39 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.