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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Oct 17th 2021, 9:59 pm
  #14371  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
What?

How is this even vaguely acceptable?


https://todayuknews.com/politics/raa...legal-experts/

Will nobody stop these people? Why are we just letting this happen?
Yes this sounds somewhat 'muddled'. The ECHR only deals with the articles of the European Convention on Human Rights. Yes it needs updating regards modern terrorism etc. However this doesn't affect the UK Human Rights Act. The latter can obviously be amended by Parliament vote but that takes time and Parliament 'agreement'.
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 1:24 am
  #14372  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

"The Oscar-winning film producer and environmentalist David Puttnam has announced his resignation from the House of Lords over concerns the UK government is on a “path to self-inflicted disaster”...In his retirement speech on Friday, Puttnam warned of “multiple dangers” facing British democracy and accused Boris Johnson of running a “populist government that’s trampling on held rights and conventions, with the sole purpose of tightening its grip on power”...His main concern though centred on the government’s lacklustre response to a report he co-authored as chair of the select committee on democracy and digital technologies in June 2020.

In it, the committee warned political power was being “ceded to a few unelected and unaccountable digital corporations” and that a “pandemic of ‘misinformation’ and ‘disinformation’” had taken hold.

“If allowed to flourish, these counterfeit truths will result in the collapse of public trust, and without trust democracy as we know it will simply decline into irrelevance,” the report said."


Not much to add to that really.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...box=1634399874
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 1:27 am
  #14373  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes this sounds somewhat 'muddled'. The ECHR only deals with the articles of the European Convention on Human Rights. Yes it needs updating regards modern terrorism etc. However this doesn't affect the UK Human Rights Act. The latter can obviously be amended by Parliament vote but that takes time and Parliament 'agreement'.
Read the article more carefully. What Raab is doing is attempting to give ministers the power to overrule courts. Ministers. Not Parliament.
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 9:39 am
  #14374  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Read the article more carefully. What Raab is doing is attempting to give ministers the power to overrule courts. Ministers. Not Parliament.
I read the article, it is muddled. Raab cannot "legislate" or give such powers. Ministers cannot legislate, a Bill has to go through Parliament.
Presume he means emergency Bills. "Legislating on a more periodic basis".
However also says "Up to Supreme Court",---- which means ignoring ECHR Strasbourg (which has happened before)
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 7:46 pm
  #14375  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
"The Oscar-winning film producer and environmentalist David Puttnam has announced his resignation from the House of Lords over concerns the UK government is on a “path to self-inflicted disaster”...In his retirement speech on Friday, Puttnam warned of “multiple dangers” facing British democracy and accused Boris Johnson of running a “populist government that’s trampling on held rights and conventions, with the sole purpose of tightening its grip on power”...His main concern though centred on the government’s lacklustre response to a report he co-authored as chair of the select committee on democracy and digital technologies in June 2020.

In it, the committee warned political power was being “ceded to a few unelected and unaccountable digital corporations” and that a “pandemic of ‘misinformation’ and ‘disinformation’” had taken hold.

“If allowed to flourish, these counterfeit truths will result in the collapse of public trust, and without trust democracy as we know it will simply decline into irrelevance,” the report said."


Not much to add to that really.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...box=1634399874
not all Brits live in an alternate reality.
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 7:55 pm
  #14376  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I read the article, it is muddled. Raab cannot "legislate" or give such powers. Ministers cannot legislate, a Bill has to go through Parliament.

You should give Raab a ring and explain that to him. Because that is exactly the power he is trying to give to ministers. He is talking about overturning a court decision, not a Bill.
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 9:00 pm
  #14377  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I read the article, it is muddled. Raab cannot "legislate" or give such powers. Ministers cannot legislate, a Bill has to go through Parliament.
We know, and the experts know. The media isn't reporting that he can't, so they're failing in the job to educate the public on the facts, again...


Presume he means emergency Bills. "Legislating on a more periodic basis".
You presume incorrectly. Instead of presuming, try looking it up.

However also says "Up to Supreme Court",---- which means ignoring ECHR Strasbourg (which has happened before)
It also includes overruling the Supreme Court if they rule against the government. I suspect they'd also overrule any court decision finding government ministers accountable.

They obviously haven't learned from Poland's government interfering in the judiciary, and probably think that there'll be no consequences because we're no longer EU members,... But I don't think it's wise to piss off the EU when you're trying to get them to agree to your brand-new interpretation of the NIP.
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Old Oct 18th 2021, 9:49 pm
  #14378  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
We know, and the experts know. The media isn't reporting that he can't, so they're failing in the job to educate the public on the facts, again...

https://twitter.com/ProfMarkElliott/...56762718687234



You presume incorrectly. Instead of presuming, try looking it up.

It also includes overruling the Supreme Court if they rule against the government. I suspect they'd also overrule any court decision finding government ministers accountable.

2)They obviously haven't learned from Poland's government interfering in the judiciary, and probably think that there'll be no consequences because we're no longer EU members,... But I don't think it's wise to piss off the EU when you're trying to get them to agree to your brand-new interpretation of the NIP.
1) Presume what? I was suggesting what could be in his mind. As Joseph Jones has stated Raab is 'muddled'.
Read the posted report---Raab states "The right thing is for Parliament to legislate to correct this".

'Judicial review' concerns the way a decision is made not the actual decision.
Regarding the UK Supreme Court Raab states 'they' should interpret the law not the Strasbourg ECHR. Which is what Theresa may said, when she disagreed with rulings.

2) Regarding Poland and their changes in the judiciary ----that is why we left the EU---why should the EU make decisions about the organisation of the judiciary of a sovereign country?----It is up to the people to vote out the Government. (Not that I approve of what I read about the present Polish Government!)



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Old Oct 19th 2021, 12:39 pm
  #14379  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

It looks like Javids plan to have 50k new cases of Covid every day is turning sour with the mutation of the Delta variant. Masks, social distancing, third vaccinations etc might well be coming up soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58965650

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Old Oct 19th 2021, 12:49 pm
  #14380  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by philat98 View Post
It looks like Javids plan to have 50k new cases of Covid every day is turning sour with the mutation of the Delta variant. Masks, social distancing, third vaccinations etc might well be coming up soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58965650
So with the high number of cases they have in the UK (nearly 50000 yesterday) they are helping new variants to develop and become more infectious ?
World-beating yet again.
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Old Oct 19th 2021, 1:09 pm
  #14381  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Who needs Parliament if Government can do it alone ?
Which democracy ?




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Old Oct 19th 2021, 1:10 pm
  #14382  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
World-beating yet again.
Yes the uK has brewed up some new mutant.
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Old Oct 19th 2021, 1:17 pm
  #14383  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by philat98 View Post
It looks like Javids plan to have 50k new cases of Covid every day is turning sour with the mutation of the Delta variant. Masks, social distancing, third vaccinations etc might well be coming up soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58965650

I'm all for third vaccinations - but also for getting everyone their first and second, in the UK and elsewhere.

To be fair, from the reports it doesn't appear as though that particular variant is either more dangerous or that different from other variants of the same strain. Covid is just going to be everywhere, for ever, and we have to get used to it. It just needs to be beaten back into cold/flu status by an efficient vaccination programme, and a non-nationalist vaccination program. And the NHS needs proper funding so that outbreaks of anything don't bring the whole system crashing down, with people unable to access care and attention for other illnesses, tests and services. I would focus on pressuring the government for that, rather than hoping they can make variants stop happening.
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Old Oct 19th 2021, 5:47 pm
  #14384  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
So with the high number of cases they have in the UK (nearly 50000 yesterday) they are helping new variants to develop and become more infectious ?
World-beating yet again.
If these figures keep going the way they are (UK has reported 223 deaths today, the highest figure since March) I can see British people facing new restrictions on overseas travel before Christmas - not imposed by the UK Government but by other countries seeing British travellers as high risk.
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Old Oct 19th 2021, 6:01 pm
  #14385  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
If these figures keep going the way they are (UK has reported 223 deaths today, the highest figure since March) I can see British people facing new restrictions on overseas travel before Christmas - not imposed by the UK Government but by other countries seeing British travellers as high risk.
Not just overseas travel. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all separate entities to England regarding health, and can, and have done at times, restricted travel from outside their areas. When the UK government talks about UK Covid restrictions, they're actually only speaking for England. But other countries rules apply to the whole of the UK.
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