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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Dec 5th 2019, 1:49 pm
  #7291  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
From what I can see Corbyn wants to give £15K apiece to women who were told 25 years ago that pension sexism would be reduced and who now are pissed about equality.

UK politics look more like US pork barrel ones as the years go by.
That's slightly different, but I'm not up on the detail about it. Even if it was mentioned/discussed in advance, people are hugely remiss in dealing with pension matters. So it could be that the government was neglectful in it's duty of care. And clearly some women will be far more affected than others.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 1:50 pm
  #7292  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Your low opinion of your fellow countrymen never ceases to amaze me. I guess that marks the divide in attitudes - you would, apparently, happily see undernourished kids and "weakest to the wall". I would rather try to ensure this does not happen and only then would I seek to sanction those who abuse the system.

I also disagree with the state encouraging irresponsibility, but it's difficult to see how you discourage it without injuring the kids who are an innocent byproduct - moves to make the support less "liquid" and more targeted help, but there is still the danger of abuse. However, it must be a tough call for you - because a drop in home-grown "carbon units" would drive the need for imported labour.......
Nicely put.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 1:52 pm
  #7293  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Perhaps it should not be cash money as bennies but vouchers only for food and kids clothing.

.
There is something in that. If nothing else it would dispel the DM type myths that make welfare such a toxic debate.


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Old Dec 5th 2019, 3:53 pm
  #7294  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
From what I can see Corbyn wants to give £15K apiece to women who were told 25 years ago that pension sexism would be reduced and who now are pissed about equality.

UK politics look more like US pork barrel ones as the years go by.
No-one is 'pissed about equality' - they are pissed about unfairness. It was right that the retirement pension ages for men and women were equalised but the way in which it was done was questionable. It was only in 2011 that some of the changes were decided upon so 25 years notice is way out.

OH's sister who is a year older than her has been receiving her OAP for several years already - OH has had to wait three years longer than her - she gets it next year.

It's only cost us about £15,000 so not the end of the world for us but for some it has made a huge difference.


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Old Dec 5th 2019, 3:54 pm
  #7295  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I remember Gordon Brown giving each new baby £500 and thinking WTF! how can that be?! Seemed a bit loose with the purse strings, but who knows. It didn't last as a policy.
I would be paying people to be sterilised.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 6:43 pm
  #7296  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
No-one is 'pissed about equality' - they are pissed about unfairness. It was right that the retirement pension ages for men and women were equalised but the way in which it was done was questionable. It was only in 2011 that some of the changes were decided upon so 25 years notice is way out.

OH's sister who is a year older than her has been receiving her OAP for several years already - OH has had to wait three years longer than her - she gets it next year.

It's only cost us about £15,000 so not the end of the world for us but for some it has made a huge difference.
The major change of equalising the retirement age was announced in 1994 both in the papers and the subsequent budget, they've had plenty of time to prepare, the 2011 change was a small increase in the pace when both sexes were pushed up to 66 by 2020 rather than women catching up with men at 65 by then. This had women hit 65 by 2018 rather than 2020.

Your OH's sister has benefitted from this gross sexism, not need to perpetuate it further.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 6:50 pm
  #7297  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Your OH's sister has benefitted from this gross sexism, not need to perpetuate it further.
Isn't it great to hear such an attack on sexism...... presumably you'll be at the forefront demanding equality of pay and opportunity too....... or is it just more cynical hypocrisy, I wonder?
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 6:53 pm
  #7298  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

There's always something.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:36 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The major change of equalising the retirement age was announced in 1994 both in the papers and the subsequent budget, they've had plenty of time to prepare, the 2011 change was a small increase in the pace when both sexes were pushed up to 66 by 2020 rather than women catching up with men at 65 by then. This had women hit 65 by 2018 rather than 2020.

Your OH's sister has benefitted from this gross sexism, not need to perpetuate it further.
Any sexism is more likely to have had a negative impact at the start of her career, so framing it as you do (as some kind of undeserved gain) is somewhat disingenuous.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
There's always something.
It's usually about someone getting 'something for nothing' without taking in the full picture. Everything in isolation.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:55 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Isn't it great to hear such an attack on sexism...... presumably you'll be at the forefront demanding equality of pay and opportunity too....... or is it just more cynical hypocrisy, I wonder?
Equality of opportunity absolutely, equality of pay as currently described (gender pay gap) absolutely not.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:56 pm
  #7302  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I fail to understand in an overpopulated world why the State wants to pay people to have children - seems crazy to me.
As far as I'm aware, the UK has never paid anyone to have children. The system does help people once children are born, though.

Reducing overpopulation in developed countries is never going to happen. Also, part of that are the increases in life-saving and life-extending medical and drug advances in the last 20-30 years. Reducing that for the elderly population isn't going to happen either. And because people are living longer, the government raises the pension age so it doesn't cost them more, but just because people are living longer, it doesn't mean they can all work longer, especially in manual jobs.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:58 pm
  #7303  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Any sexism is more likely to have had a negative impact at the start of her career, so framing it as you do (as some kind of undeserved gain) is somewhat disingenuous.
That would be an issue between her and any employer, not her and the tax (NI) payer.

25 years ago women were told that the sexist position of allowing them to retire years earlier was going to be phased out, it now is being and they don't like it.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 8:00 pm
  #7304  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
As far as I'm aware, the UK has never paid anyone to have children. The system does help people once children are born, though.
It's the same thing.

Reducing overpopulation in developed countries is never going to happen. Also, part of that are the increases in life-saving and life-extending medical and drug advances in the last 20-30 years. Reducing that for the elderly population isn't going to happen either. And because people are living longer, the government raises the pension age so it doesn't cost them more, but just because people are living longer, it doesn't mean they can all work longer, especially in manual jobs.
Increasing longevity is one issue, but it has nothing to do with a policy of encouraging childbirth that we are discussing.
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Old Dec 5th 2019, 8:02 pm
  #7305  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It's usually about someone getting 'something for nothing' without taking in the full picture. Everything in isolation.
The matriarchy has perpetuated advantages for women for decades, it's about time we had equality in the way people were treated.
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