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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Jul 21st 2019, 7:09 pm
  #3511  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Anyway it's a good thing there were a lot of remainiac MPs to vote it down.

Them leaver MPs voted for it for sure.
Parliament is what, 99.9% remainiac? Kind of like the rest of the planet (although foreigners can't don't count).

Give the poor guy a break. It's shit to be lonely.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 21st 2019 at 7:12 pm.
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Makes you wonder how the EU were able to impose The Backstop when we held all the cards, eh?
Apparently "remainiac" MPs handed that card to the EU. Difficult to see how, when none of them was involved in the drafting of the WA - in fact all MPs bar the ERG-DUP were kept very much at arms' length throughout.
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 7:24 pm
  #3513  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

All in the interest of "democracy" of course.

Perhaps they got that tip from Vlad, in addition to a few Rubles.
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 8:10 pm
  #3514  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Both parties have an obligation to continue the agreement, both parties should have equal skin in the game, not one having the veto whip-hand over the other.
One of the two parties has been cavalier about its obligations, by seeking to create a customs border in Ireland.

The other hasn't.
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 8:35 pm
  #3515  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Both parties have an obligation to continue the agreement, both parties should have equal skin in the game, not one having the veto whip-hand over the other.
I wonder if being far more credible and... far larger, with far less to lose... has any influence on that. Or perhaps just claiming to be superior without any tangible evidence is enough to convince the one holding all the face cards to fold. They are foreigners, after all.
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 8:39 pm
  #3516  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

If the UK wants to continue with its British Border in Ireland, it must be prepared for the elevated risk that others won't eventually recognise it. This border was created by a treaty a century ago to form a temporary Free State from a northern UK enclave. That Free State is now an internationally recognised nation and member state of the EU, while the enclave's status remains unchanged.
So my question is, post October, if the UK won't recognise Eire's concerns why should the EU? The EU's default is protection of its member states, not third nations with whom it's never made any agreement over this border. The parallel example is the Member State of Cyprus with an annexed border under UN control - the EU having no federated armed forces.
Want to see that in Ireland?
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Old Jul 21st 2019, 9:34 pm
  #3517  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Both parties have an obligation to continue the agreement, both parties should have equal skin in the game, not one having the veto whip-hand over the other.
The EU is continuing with agreement it has with one of it's member states, alongside a request from that member state to keep the border it has with it's own neighbour open and free. However, there has to be a border between the member state and neighbouring non-member where the 2 differing regulatory standards begin/end.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The EU, like Ireland wanted it applied solely to NI to enable the future carving-off from the UK.
Why would the EU care about the UK constituent countries seperating? The UK as a single entity is easier to manage as a member.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Jul 21st 2019 at 10:19 pm.
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Old Jul 22nd 2019, 7:08 am
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Why would the EU care about the UK constituent countries separating? The UK as a single entity is easier to manage as a member.
Indeed, it was the UK that tried to bypass the EU's negotiating team and lobby the constituent member states in the hope of dividing them. There was no similar activity on the part of the EU; it agreed to speak to Nicola Sturgeon for example, but refused to negotiate with her. More widely, this isn't its strategy either - it stayed out of the Catalonia question, for example.

It's one of the paradoxes of brexiters' conspiracy theories that the UK is guilty of what they accuse the EU of.

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Old Jul 22nd 2019, 7:16 am
  #3519  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Hypocrisy seems to be a solemn credo of the Brexit camp. It's certainly been present in the majority of Brexit rationales and arguments.
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Old Jul 22nd 2019, 11:03 am
  #3520  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Johnson may make the Tory party feel marvellous for a little while, but so do binge drinking and most recreational drugs. Sooner rather than later, any Boris bounce will be followed by a massive Boris hangover and associated repentance.



I just want to share this article

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/07/22/no-need-for-truth-or-competence-a-johnson-victory-will-degra

.
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Old Jul 23rd 2019, 11:04 am
  #3521  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

America feel a little less shame about electing Donald Trump the A-moral for president now that the UK has committed the same horrible decision with Boris Johnson. You don't get less qualified than these two bigots. But I will say I did expect more from a ancient society like the UK. I imagine both countries will be at war with Iran with in the next 12 months.
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Old Jul 23rd 2019, 11:07 am
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
America feel a little less shame about electing Donald Trump the A-moral for president now that the UK has committed the same horrible decision with Boris Johnson. You don't get less qualified than these two bigots. But I will say I did expect more from a ancient society like the UK. I imagine both countries will be at war with Iran with in the next 12 months.
One difference being that the UK didn't elect Johnson. A very small number of party members did. Still, I have no argument about his character.
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Old Jul 23rd 2019, 11:19 am
  #3523  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
America feel a little less shame about electing Donald Trump the A-moral for president now that the UK has committed the same horrible decision with Boris Johnson. You don't get less qualified than these two bigots. But I will say I did expect more from a ancient society like the UK. I imagine both countries will be at war with Iran with in the next 12 months.


Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
One difference being that the UK didn't elect Johnson. A very small number of party members did. Still, I have no argument about his character.
It matters not. War is the biggest US export. The UK has today signed on for the duration of the latest US war game.
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Old Jul 23rd 2019, 12:12 pm
  #3524  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

The UK's role is not just that of US sidekick. The UK is a huge arms dealer, second only to the US I believe. And we aren't too picky about who we sell them to, either. The Sauds are big customers, for example.
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Old Jul 23rd 2019, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The UK's role is not just that of US sidekick. The UK is a huge arms dealer, second only to the US I believe. And we aren't too picky about who we sell them to, either. The Sauds are big customers, for example.
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