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Shall we blame the Police for this?

Shall we blame the Police for this?

Old Jun 27th 2020, 3:12 pm
  #1  
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Default Shall we blame the Police for this?

Now dependent media sources the headlines could have been Police shoot another black man, Refugee shot dead by police but the UK headlines elected not to use these types of headlines but rather

Police officer stabbed in Glasgow now in stable condition, Glasgow hotel staff 'were told of concerns about attack suspect's mental health'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/27/police-officer-stabbed-glasgow-stable-condition-david-whyte

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-mental-health

But yeah lets blame the Police because they really are the bad guys.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 3:27 pm
  #2  
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Now dependent media sources the headlines could have been Police shoot another black man, Refugee shot dead by police but the UK headlines elected not to use these types of headlines but rather

Police officer stabbed in Glasgow now in stable condition, Glasgow hotel staff 'were told of concerns about attack suspect's mental health'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/27/police-officer-stabbed-glasgow-stable-condition-david-whyte

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-mental-health

But yeah lets blame the Police because they really are the bad guys.
OK - if you say so.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 3:30 pm
  #3  
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Now dependent media sources the headlines could have been Police shoot another black man, Refugee shot dead by police but the UK headlines elected not to use these types of headlines but rather

Police officer stabbed in Glasgow now in stable condition, Glasgow hotel staff 'were told of concerns about attack suspect's mental health'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/27/police-officer-stabbed-glasgow-stable-condition-david-whyte

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-mental-health

But yeah lets blame the Police because they really are the bad guys.
I'm a bit confuddled by your post, are you suggesting the headline actually used was appropriate or not?
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Don't know where you are coming from with this post?!?!?
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 3:42 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

The headlines are very appropriate rather than some of the sensational headlines used in other places around the world. Now dependent on how many threads yourself and Jimenato have participated in lets just say some posters after reading those stories may come to the conclusion that the Police really do have a shit job to do at times but I can guarantee none of them will be going out to their local police recruitment office to sign up.
Absolutely call the police out when they do wrong like George Floyd and so many others and prosecute them to the full extent of the law but also be prepared to acknowledge the shit they have to put up with as nobody else is willing to do it.
So lets see if anyone will be held accountable for this incident.
Rant over.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
The headlines are very appropriate rather than some of the sensational headlines used in other places around the world. Now dependent on how many threads yourself and Jimenato have participated in lets just say some posters after reading those stories may come to the conclusion that the Police really do have a shit job to do at times but I can guarantee none of them will be going out to their local police recruitment office to sign up.
Absolutely call the police out when they do wrong like George Floyd and so many others and prosecute them to the full extent of the law but also be prepared to acknowledge the shit they have to put up with as nobody else is willing to do it.
So lets see if anyone will be held accountable for this incident.
Rant over.
This is really an issue of mental health and social services failure. Several warnings had been given regarding the mental state of the refugee. (Just like the terrible case of the child thrown from the Tate.)
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 5:11 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
This is really an issue of mental health and social services failure. Several warnings had been given regarding the mental state of the refugee. (Just like the terrible case of the child thrown from the Tate.)
Yes, the issue with this and all other such tragedies is the pitiful response to those with recognised behavioural issues. IF (and it's a big if) they actually get to see someone, then it's either "Here's some pills, come back in three months" or the same, plus the offer to join a two-year waiting list for counselling. Self-referral is a joke, referral after an incident is box-ticking. Whilst people keep banging the drum about "Mental Health" being starved of resource, nothing gets done because it's not sexy.

10 years ago I had a colleague who developed serious issues and I was asked to act as his advocate. He tried in every way to get help and, eventually, he got 3 sessions with a "counsellor" who then put him down for a CBT course. The waiting list was 18 months. He killed himself a few months later - an entirely avoidable situation, had the system been able to support him. This, or a blighted life, are the more usual outcomes of such failure.... and they aren't visible - so it's only when someone commits a crime that the situation gets noticed and then only for as long as the headlines continue........
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 5:23 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Yes, the issue with this and all other such tragedies is the pitiful response to those with recognised behavioural issues. IF (and it's a big if) they actually get to see someone, then it's either "Here's some pills, come back in three months" or the same, plus the offer to join a two-year waiting list for counselling. Self-referral is a joke, referral after an incident is box-ticking. Whilst people keep banging the drum about "Mental Health" being starved of resource, nothing gets done because it's not sexy.

10 years ago I had a colleague who developed serious issues and I was asked to act as his advocate. He tried in every way to get help and, eventually, he got 3 sessions with a "counsellor" who then put him down for a CBT course. The waiting list was 18 months. He killed himself a few months later - an entirely avoidable situation, had the system been able to support him. This, or a blighted life, are the more usual outcomes of such failure.... and they aren't visible - so it's only when someone commits a crime that the situation gets noticed and then only for as long as the headlines continue........
Not much different in Canada, they rely heavily on medications for mental health, even though for many mental health issues medications are not appropriate first-line treatment. We also have people who end up ending their lives while waiting on long waits lists if help is even available, its a postal code lottery in Canada for mental health, those with complex disorders that need long term therapy are basically screwed in the vast majority of Canada if they can't self pay, and low cost places typically wont take complex disorders because well they are complex and difficult, and time consuming to treat.

Society has more or less decided as have the politicians that the loss of life from not providing adequate mental health treatment and access is okay because of the money saved.

For me for example if I stayed in Vancouver there was 0% chance of ever getting help, your average person with a significant mental health problem likely doesn't have 1,000+ a month for treatment. Which is the insane part.

There have been some cases in Canada where someone has gone to hospital for help, not taken seriously or provided any help, discharged and then the patient ended their lives not long after.

Often even if admitted, you spend a week in hospital receiving no actual help, discharged and sent on your way with little to no community support.

It's a totally broken system, and money alone wont fix it, the issue is policies, you can throw money at it, but without a change in policy nothing will actually improve.







Last edited by Jsmth321; Jun 27th 2020 at 5:25 pm.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
This is really an issue of mental health and social services failure. Several warnings had been given regarding the mental state of the refugee. (Just like the terrible case of the child thrown from the Tate.)
Agreed but guess what these are not attending incidents where mental health problems are an issue. In the last few weeks in Canada there have been several deaths at the hands of the Police where they attended incidents involving mental health issues. One family accused the Police of throwing their daughter from a 24th balcony to her death which they later retracted. None of these deaths need to have occurred but due to lack of investment in services that are specifically trained to deal with these incidents guess who get called to these incidents? Guess who have been blamed for all these deaths? Send a cop with a gun to incidents like these then there is always the potential for these outcomes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...isis-1.5623907

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/camh-u...ecks-1.4999064
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Mears Group have a contract with The Home Office to run "accommodation facilities" for asylum seekers. Conditions are not good in these places and mental health of the inmates is at risk. Conditions in Barlinnie are better.

https://theferret.scot

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Old Jun 27th 2020, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
The headlines are very appropriate rather than some of the sensational headlines used in other places around the world.
I too am puzzled. You appear to have expressed surprise that the Guardian has run a couple of appropriate headlines instead of inaccurate sensationalism.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
The headlines are very appropriate rather than some of the sensational headlines used in other places around the world. Now dependent on how many threads yourself and Jimenato have participated in lets just say some posters after reading those stories may come to the conclusion that the Police really do have a shit job to do at times but I can guarantee none of them will be going out to their local police recruitment office to sign up.
Absolutely call the police out when they do wrong like George Floyd and so many others and prosecute them to the full extent of the law but also be prepared to acknowledge the shit they have to put up with as nobody else is willing to do it.
So lets see if anyone will be held accountable for this incident.
Rant over.
Yep. Policing is today one of the most thankless professions on the planet. A sad state of affairs really because overall they should be appreciated alongside those other heroes who are serving our nations: the military, fire and ambulance services.
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I too am puzzled. You appear to have expressed surprise that the Guardian has run a couple of appropriate headlines instead of inaccurate sensationalism.
I believe any news media should report stories accurately and tone down sensational headlines but of course they want readers to read the articles which sometimes means they have to click on the headlines. Traditional newspapers are not read by many but those that are the reader doesn't need to click to read the story as they usually buy it to be kept informed.
I agree it is sometimes hard to do a headline but is the headline the actual story. Lots of online media have comments sections and I have laughed my ass off when obviously the person making a comment hasn't read the story as the question he/she asks is answered in the actual article. CBC is a prime example of this except stories where they don't allow comments.

Also what bugs the crap out of me is in most cases and due to Privacy issues the Police and other Law Enforcement Agencies cannot give their side of the story or it is a very watered down version due to the ongoing investigation. Try reading any story involving CBSA and see how the CBSA respond to it. Guarantee it will be words like sorry we don't comment on individual cases.

Need some examples
Meanwhile, a spokesperson for public safety minister Ralph Goodale said the government cannot comment on the Montoya’s case specifically.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4751451/f...christmas-eve/


A spokesperson for CBSA told CTV News Toronto that it is unable to comment on specific cases due to privacy concerns, but said that the decision to remove someone from Canada is not taken lightly.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/pregnant-...avel-1.4714851


The CBSA spokesperson declined to comment directly on Betoukoumessou’s case, citing privacy concerns
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...in_canada.html
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Old Jun 28th 2020, 7:56 am
  #14  
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Default Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Yep. Policing is today one of the most thankless professions on the planet. A sad state of affairs really because overall they should be appreciated alongside those other heroes who are serving our nations: the military, fire and ambulance services.
What about the refuse collectors?
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Old Jun 28th 2020, 8:37 am
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Smile Re: Shall we blame the Police for this?

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
What about the refuse collectors?
I heard on the radio yesterday 75% of all refuse collectors are down in the dumps.
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