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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:27 pm
  #646  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

You forgot the ignorance of what the EU is abd the UK's relationship as a member state. They simply didn't know or understand it.

Lastly, the hubris that encouraged ignoring all reality in negotiating the cake.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:28 pm
  #647  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I think you must be confused.

Parliament voted to hold an advisory referendum. The did not vote on what to do with the result.

The government (not the same thing as Parliament) said it would implement the result. And they have been trying to do that ever since, but of course they can't because of the nature of poorly-phrased question, the near-total lack of information in the campaign, the completely-total lack of specifics, several other factors, and the country divided due to the narrowness of the win. This is a part of the "mess" we were talking about earlier.
There really isn't any confusion. A cross party majority of M.Ps said they would implement the result of the referendum. That took place before the referendum.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:29 pm
  #648  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
If we Brexit, you're right, I won't. Although, I'm getting the sense that we may, after all, avert that disaster.
I , of course, hope you are wrong. Time will tell.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:33 pm
  #649  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
If we Brexit, you're right, I won't. Although, I'm getting the sense that we may, after all, avert that disaster.
How do you reckon that Shard? With a hung parliament maybe?

If the Tories get a majority (likely I think) the disaster is a cert.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:35 pm
  #650  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
There really isn't any confusion. A cross party majority of M.Ps said they would implement the result of the referendum. That took place before the referendum.
a) That's not parliament
b) It didn't happen.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 4:53 pm
  #651  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Parliament said it would uphold the result of the referendum.
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
...not only the Government of the day but both Labour and Tory politicians stated they would implement the result of the referendum....The fact remains though that Parliament stated it would implement the result.
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
...The referendum commitment was by the standing parliament...Cameron was only part of it. The H. o.C. voted they would implement the result. It was a majority decision by all parties.
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
They voted to implement it (the result of the referendum) before the referendum. .
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Not in the slightest confused. It was a majority vote by all parties to implement the the result of the referendum. ...
I think KJMW is trying to walk back his "parliament voted to carry out the referendum result" realising his misunderstanding with his reference to all parties 'deciding' to implement the result except there is still this thing about voting to do so.

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
There really isn't any confusion. A cross party majority of M.Ps said they would implement the result of the referendum. That took place before the referendum.
This looks even more like walking it back but still suggests there was a vote of some sort among MPs prior to the referendum.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
a) That's not parliament
b) It didn't happen.
Here's a useful link for KJMV. It's Parliament.UK. They'd probably know. Click on the pdf link at the bottom to see a list of the events leading up to the EU Referendum on 23 June 2016. There's no reference to Parliament voting to decide (or otherwise) to implement the result.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 6:25 pm
  #652  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
There really isn't any confusion. A cross party majority of M.Ps said they would implement the result of the referendum. That took place before the referendum.
If you can at least give a rough guide to when this was, it'd be easier to check. But nothing comes up in searches of Google, Hansard or BE (and if such an agreement had happened, aomeone would have mentioned it on BE.

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I think KJMW is trying to walk back his "parliament voted to carry out the referendum result" realising his misunderstanding with his reference to all parties 'deciding' to implement the result except there is still this thing about voting to do so.


This looks even more like walking it back but still suggests there was a vote of some sort among MPs prior to the referendum.



Here's a useful link for KJMV. It's Parliament.UK. They'd probably know. Click on the pdf link at the bottom to see a list of the events leading up to the EU Referendum on 23 June 2016. There's no reference to Parliament voting to decide (or otherwise) to implement the result.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 6:28 pm
  #653  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
How do you reckon that Shard? With a hung parliament maybe?

If the Tories get a majority (likely I think) the disaster is a cert.
I'm expecting a hung parliament. I agree on the disaster scenario.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:06 pm
  #654  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
If you can at least give a rough guide to when this was, it'd be easier to check. But nothing comes up in searches of Google, Hansard or BE (and if such an agreement had happened, aomeone would have mentioned it on BE.



That result was reinforced not only by Parliament’s passing of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill with clear and convincing majorities; but also in the 2017 General Election, where over 80% of people also voted for parties committed to respecting the result of the referendum. In fact, both major parties stood for election on a stated policy to respect the decision of the people. The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will expressed by voters in the referendum - respecting both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered the referendum result.


There is more of course but this is from the U.K. Gov site.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:16 pm
  #655  
 
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
I said it may sound naive, not that I am naive!! What you have started with is irrelevant and nothing to do with what I said. The referendum commitment was by the standing parliament not its successors or predecessors. Cameron was only part of it. The H. o.C. voted they would implement the result. It was a majority decision by all parties.
This....

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
That result was reinforced not only by Parliament’s passing of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill with clear and convincing majorities; but also in the 2017 General Election, where over 80% of people also voted for parties committed to respecting the result of the referendum. In fact, both major parties stood for election on a stated policy to respect the decision of the people. The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will expressed by voters in the referendum - respecting both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered the referendum result.
...is not that.

It's important to be clear about these things, especially in these times of loose relationship with the truth.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:38 pm
  #656  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
How do you reckon that Shard? With a hung parliament maybe?

If the Tories get a majority (likely I think) the disaster is a cert.
Just saw a Northern traditional Labour focus group on C4 News. All disillusioned with JC, planning to vote for BJ. Perhaps my optimism is misplaced.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:55 pm
  #657  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
That result was reinforced not only by Parliament’s passing of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill with clear and convincing majorities; but also in the 2017 General Election, where over 80% of people also voted for parties committed to respecting the result of the referendum. In fact, both major parties stood for election on a stated policy to respect the decision of the people. The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will expressed by voters in the referendum - respecting both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered the referendum result.


There is more of course but this is from the U.K. Gov site.
That's NOT what you claimed, and NOT what you were being called out on. Either admit you made an untruthful statement, or prove your assertions.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 7:59 pm
  #658  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Just saw a Northern traditional Labour focus group on C4 News. All disillusioned with JC, planning to vote for BJ. Perhaps my optimism is misplaced.
​​​​​​​Disillusioned people tend not to participate. To turn their state into an automatic switch to the opposite, imo, ignores human nature entirely.

Last edited by 007Steve; Dec 2nd 2019 at 8:01 pm.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 8:09 pm
  #659  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
Disillusioned people tend not to participate. To turn their state into an automatic switch to the opposite, imo, ignores human nature entirely.
I didn't say they were disillusioned, I said they were disillusioned with JC. And that's just my word choice, how about 'frustrated' or 'resentful'? Of course, it's just one focus group, but there are often vox pop where Northerners express the same sentiment.

They were asked to predict headlines 6 months hence, and generally they produced sunny upland type headlines. Never overestimate the intelligence of the public.
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Old Dec 2nd 2019, 8:19 pm
  #660  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

I suspect there's a significant number of "disillusioned" on all sides.

I'd bet a few quid there's plenty of Tory voters who would be happy to vote for remaining, as long as it meant keeping Tories in power. Tribalism trumps practical reality.
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