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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Nov 18th 2019, 2:04 pm
  #196  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
The BBC hasn't been left leaning in it's news coverage for a long time, remember who is their paymaster, yes the government, so don't upset them, and who vets the appointment of people into key positions, yes.. the government, so don't tell me its unbiased or left leaning, almost ALL the top positions are filled by Tory supporters, especially yhose in key posts in news and current affairs, it's only in the last week or so that they have been doing their jobs actually grilling Tory ministers.
The BBC is paid for by the licence fee payer not the government.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
OK. It's complicated.
Dad comes from Labour-leaning Catholic Scottish family that was fundamentally middle class, with socialist roots I guess.
Mum comes from the deep Southern heartlands of the Conservatives. She still reads the Daily Mail. Grew up very comfortably but not rich.
Prior to them splitting we were wealthy by normal standards, big house, posh cars, big holidays. All went tits up in early 90's recession, lost everything, split up.
After they split up it wasn't comfortable and I remember going without or having the cheapest or making do for a long time. When I got to my mid / late teens Dad's business took off and he moved back to the life he had with Mum, probably even wealthier in fact, retired at 51 I think.
At the same time, Mum's career was doing great and she could provide a far greater level of financial comfort to life and now is nearly retired and very upper middle class in terms of cash I guess.
Both have never really changed in terms of outlook on things, values, morals, desires, fears, worries. Dad STILL worries about money. Mum STILL talks about not wasting things from when we had nothing to waste.
Really hard to articulate without war and peace and without sounding like a dick, so apologies.
Whilst I may only be 31 (and a half ) I've lived overseas for almost 9 years now and despite Dubai's bubble-like nature I'm back to the UK regularly through each year for visits or work so am not completely removed from some of the realities of life, I'd like to think anyway.
I think my opinions come from the better parts of my life, perhaps. I know how to be sensible and I know how to save or not waste or get by. I'm good at that when I need to be. I also like nice shit and I also work hard for it and will continue to do so. I've seen both parents go from wealthy to bankrupt to wealthy. I see literally no barriers to anyone becoming a success whether financial or otherwise.

I'm not buying into anything yet I don't think. I'm opting out at the moment. I really hope it makes sense. I'm not interested in Labour's big shift left, I'm not interested in Corbyn - I see him as a total fraud being lauded as the holier than thou man we need to lead our nation.
I spoke to both parents on this very recently. Briefly with Mum because I was letting her know she'll get my postal vote soon and told her how tight the constituency was so I need to think hard. Her response was along the lines of a rant about Corbyn being anti-semitic etc.
Dad in much greater detail and he's a bit more balanced but his summary was "I just can't find a way to recommend anyone vote Labour whilst Corbyn's in charge. but you're right, the Conservatives moving right makes it a pretty awful choice". I think that's almost word for word.
So, I know what I don't like, yet. I know I don't like one side.
Boris - I can take or leave. He's made far more progress than many could or would with Brexit and getting a deal. He tried everything to make something happen. I hugely appreciate and respect the desire to get shit done. Brexit, whilst I voted Remain, needs to either be cancelled and the fall out handled (disastrous potentially, I think) OR needs to just bloody happen. The UK cannot continue in this purgatory.
Do I care whether people are falling for political bullshit and lies in the media? Not one bit.
Do I think ANY parties are 100% clean and honest? hahahahahha No.
The videos being shared on social media are laughable. It's like there's 3 words in a 500 word statement that people focus on and then the world explodes and this party are this or this party are that.

It seems to be deliberately forgotten that the deal is a temporary measure for a finite period. The sooner we leave the sooner the UK can progress and move on. There is a long future ahead and we aren't actually doing any work towards it yet.
I thoroughly dislike the political battleground that Brexit has become and whilst the Tories are lucky they're in power and can remain the 'positive' voters because they're trying to get on with it, it means the opposition and other parties who vote constantly against deals are the ones blocking progress. Do I think Corbyn could get a better deal than Boris or May or Joe Bloggs? No. I don't think any of them are capable of getting a 'great' deal because one isn't on the table. We're going to have to make sacrifices and make things work.

I might have said it a few times or alluded to it, but I believe in getting things done. I don't believe in dicking around or playing games. I want to see progress, I want to see forward movement. I cannot believe the UK public are still buying all this shit with Brexit, it's disastrous and quite why there isn't a unified march on Westminster saying "HURRY THE **** UP WE'VE ALL GOT LIVES TO LIVE" is beyond me.

Using generation stereotypes, I think this helps to explain: I'm very much a millenial in terms of the year born. I'm not really a full whack millenial though - yes, I think boomers have had it easy their entire lives (laying blame with the past?), yes I think we're an inbetween generation that doesn't fit and yes I'm more concerned about the environment and charitable work than other generations it seems.....however, I'm not a whiny little bitch like so many. I want to work hard, I've been with the same company nearly 8 years and I've got a lot of the attitudes of older generations as well about sort of shutting up and getting on with it etc.

I definitely don't join a lot of young voters in automatically hating the Conservatives. Intelligent friends seem to just think, blame the 'elites'. You're a ****ing elite you pleb, you're white, middle class and grew up in the South and have a good job in London. What isn't elite about that in the modern day UK?

I'm not defending the conservatives or saying they're the best thing since sliced bread but when have any ruling party been praised for doing a good job in the run up to an election? When have any opposition been congratulated for having some good manifesto ideas? It's like we're living in some sort of alternative reality where only one party can do wrong and anyone can find stats to prove it. I'm just left aghast at some of the idiocy.

Don't think this rambling really answers any of your questions so I'm really sorry about that but my fingers hurt and I'm 6 minutes late for a meeting.

My favourite bit here - "you're a ****ing elite you pleb"

Seriously though, I often think about how people's backgrounds do and don't have an effect in how people think politically. Personally, I've never really been tribal and I attribute much of that to growing up in an extremely tribal family in London (will only ever vote Conservative ever, because). I also had a protected, comfortable childhood - not rich, never wasteful or profligate, but always comfortable and with the luck to be exposed to things like European travel due to some strategically placed friends and relatives we could stay with. But hugely protected - over-protected and kept almost completely ignorant (with good intentions no doubt) of how life was for people without the luck to have lives like ours other than dinner-table comments of how some people "choose" to be poor or "choose" not to get a good education, or how some people "wouldn't be happy or comfortable" if they went to university or to the opera or whatever. My social and educational sphere was entirely made up of people just like me - I knew nobody, at all, whose life was not pretty much just like mine. My mother was a teacher in Wandsworth before it got posh, and my father was a business exec.

And then at 16/17 my parents took me out of the Chelsea school I had been sent to , and, for reasons I'll never know (but I think to save money) sent me to an insane (a lot more insane than they knew, for sure) tutorial 6th form college in London. There I found myself with students from other countries, with South African political refugees, with people who had been expelled from other schools, with people of every kind of life experience. It was sex and drugs and rock and roll, to which I had to adapt immediately with no training at all. I found out that I had been growing up inside a plastic bag, with truths concealed from me (even with the best of intentions). And from there I set about with determination to learn all the things I didn't know about and experience other kinds of life, leaving home a few weeks after I turned 18 to live in an entirely unsuitable setup in London and never taking any financial support from my parents again.

I didn't focus on "doing well" financially though. Instead I knocked about the place and had all sorts of experiences, good, bad and ugly in various countries that have obviously made me what I am so I don't regret any of them even though I would be much more comfortably off it I had just stayed on the rails and married some stockbroker from Esher or something. I've always worked, and I've also been on the verge of not being able to keep a roof over my head and my son's. I'm still working hard to recover from that. Perhaps the main political impression that has affected how I vote and choose parties, people etc is that power relinquishes nothing without a struggle (citation Frederick Douglass), and that power has no interest at all in doing anything other than look after itself and its interests and sometimes a few people can win from that, if they succeed in latching on to the teat, but many do not and that is a failing from all of us although we seek to justify it to ourselves and others with sanctimonious and dishonest twaddle.

We make choices as a society, not just as individuals. Travel has succeeded in removing me from the false dichotomy of Labour vs Conservative, and me to look instead at policy and character and the entire social and economic structure of a society and what we do/don't do to make it better. In the case of the UK just now, for all we can pick holes in any party's manifesto, I couldn't possibly vote for Boris and the gang based on his lack of integrity, the policies of his party over the last years, and where his apparent interests lie in terms of who will get the benefit of government support. Even if I were a natural conservative, which I'm not, I couldn't do it. Not tribal you see, and when I think of the effect on actual families and real people, I can't see myself as contributing to leaving people in that position.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Nov 18th 2019 at 2:17 pm.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 3:06 pm
  #198  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
OK. It's complicated.
.
Everyone agrees that we need to move forward, but it's not just obstacle blocking the road which we need to remove ASAP. It's two different roads heading to two different futures and two different indentities. It's highly lamentable that the Tories and their pathetic leadership 2016-19 wasted over three years, that's grounds for dismissal rather than reappointment. They are forcing through a change that will be detrimental to the majority of the country, and at this stage the majority even knows it. BoJo's can-do attitude is deceptive. He's a Pied Piper. Whomever is elected will resolve this mess within a year, but they nature of that resolution is what's important.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 6:58 pm
  #199  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Everyone agrees that we need to move forward, but it's not just obstacle blocking the road which we need to remove ASAP. It's two different roads heading to two different futures and two different indentities. It's highly lamentable that the Tories and their pathetic leadership 2016-19 wasted over three years, that's grounds for dismissal rather than reappointment. They are forcing through a change that will be detrimental to the majority of the country, and at this stage the majority even knows it. BoJo's can-do attitude is deceptive. He's a Pied Piper. Whomever is elected will resolve this mess within a year, but they nature of that resolution is what's important.
... The UK's problem is that those who've orchestrated, managed, and are set lo now force through this process won't be around in a decade to see the results, let alone live in it.
They'll be abroad, they'll be non-dom registered in their nice little tax havens with eurodollar accounts and multiple shell companies as asset shields. (Take Redwood for example)
They of course will have FOM. They of course will have multiple homes. They'll have the private health care, the private schools, the golden visa or similar tax status. They'll even have the private police to guard them in their gated communities.
Will you ???
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 9:28 pm
  #200  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
... The UK's problem is that those who've orchestrated, managed, and are set lo now force through this process won't be around in a decade to see the results, let alone live in it.
They'll be abroad, they'll be non-dom registered in their nice little tax havens with eurodollar accounts and multiple shell companies as asset shields. (Take Redwood for example)
They of course will have FOM. They of course will have multiple homes. They'll have the private health care, the private schools, the golden visa or similar tax status. They'll even have the private police to guard them in their gated communities.
Will you ???
Colourful commentary as usual, but certainly the chief proponents of the Brexit experiment are very well insulated from any economic disruption.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 10:17 pm
  #201  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Colourful commentary as usual, but certainly the chief proponents of the Brexit experiment are very well insulated from any economic disruption.
As have been many remainers during the EU years.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 11:20 pm
  #202  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
As have been many remainers during the EU years.
Presumably this is a jibe at better off people with the false implication that, were there no "EU years," they would be struggling too. Unlikely.
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 1:39 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Presumably this is a jibe at better off people with the false implication that, were there no "EU years," they would be struggling too. Unlikely.
I saw that as more of a jibe at people that were the beneficiaries of fom from a wages perspective (bosses), and people that didn't get the shitty end of the fom stick

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Old Nov 19th 2019, 5:49 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
OK. It's complicated.
Dad comes from Labour-leaning Catholic Scottish family that was fundamentally middle class, with socialist roots I guess.
Mum comes from the deep Southern heartlands of the Conservatives. She still reads the Daily Mail. Grew up very comfortably but not rich.
Prior to them splitting we were wealthy by normal standards, big house, posh cars, big holidays. All went tits up in early 90's recession, lost everything, split up.
After they split up it wasn't comfortable and I remember going without or having the cheapest or making do for a long time. When I got to my mid / late teens Dad's business took off and he moved back to the life he had with Mum, probably even wealthier in fact, retired at 51 I think.
At the same time, Mum's career was doing great and she could provide a far greater level of financial comfort to life and now is nearly retired and very upper middle class in terms of cash I guess.
Both have never really changed in terms of outlook on things, values, morals, desires, fears, worries. Dad STILL worries about money. Mum STILL talks about not wasting things from when we had nothing to waste.
Really hard to articulate without war and peace and without sounding like a dick, so apologies.
Whilst I may only be 31 (and a half ) I've lived overseas for almost 9 years now and despite Dubai's bubble-like nature I'm back to the UK regularly through each year for visits or work so am not completely removed from some of the realities of life, I'd like to think anyway.
I think my opinions come from the better parts of my life, perhaps. I know how to be sensible and I know how to save or not waste or get by. I'm good at that when I need to be. I also like nice shit and I also work hard for it and will continue to do so. I've seen both parents go from wealthy to bankrupt to wealthy. I see literally no barriers to anyone becoming a success whether financial or otherwise.

I'm not buying into anything yet I don't think. I'm opting out at the moment. I really hope it makes sense. I'm not interested in Labour's big shift left, I'm not interested in Corbyn - I see him as a total fraud being lauded as the holier than thou man we need to lead our nation.
I spoke to both parents on this very recently. Briefly with Mum because I was letting her know she'll get my postal vote soon and told her how tight the constituency was so I need to think hard. Her response was along the lines of a rant about Corbyn being anti-semitic etc.
Dad in much greater detail and he's a bit more balanced but his summary was "I just can't find a way to recommend anyone vote Labour whilst Corbyn's in charge. but you're right, the Conservatives moving right makes it a pretty awful choice". I think that's almost word for word.
So, I know what I don't like, yet. I know I don't like one side.
Boris - I can take or leave. He's made far more progress than many could or would with Brexit and getting a deal. He tried everything to make something happen. I hugely appreciate and respect the desire to get shit done. Brexit, whilst I voted Remain, needs to either be cancelled and the fall out handled (disastrous potentially, I think) OR needs to just bloody happen. The UK cannot continue in this purgatory.
Do I care whether people are falling for political bullshit and lies in the media? Not one bit.
Do I think ANY parties are 100% clean and honest? hahahahahha No.
The videos being shared on social media are laughable. It's like there's 3 words in a 500 word statement that people focus on and then the world explodes and this party are this or this party are that.

It seems to be deliberately forgotten that the deal is a temporary measure for a finite period. The sooner we leave the sooner the UK can progress and move on. There is a long future ahead and we aren't actually doing any work towards it yet.
I thoroughly dislike the political battleground that Brexit has become and whilst the Tories are lucky they're in power and can remain the 'positive' voters because they're trying to get on with it, it means the opposition and other parties who vote constantly against deals are the ones blocking progress. Do I think Corbyn could get a better deal than Boris or May or Joe Bloggs? No. I don't think any of them are capable of getting a 'great' deal because one isn't on the table. We're going to have to make sacrifices and make things work.

I might have said it a few times or alluded to it, but I believe in getting things done. I don't believe in dicking around or playing games. I want to see progress, I want to see forward movement. I cannot believe the UK public are still buying all this shit with Brexit, it's disastrous and quite why there isn't a unified march on Westminster saying "HURRY THE **** UP WE'VE ALL GOT LIVES TO LIVE" is beyond me.

Using generation stereotypes, I think this helps to explain: I'm very much a millenial in terms of the year born. I'm not really a full whack millenial though - yes, I think boomers have had it easy their entire lives (laying blame with the past?), yes I think we're an inbetween generation that doesn't fit and yes I'm more concerned about the environment and charitable work than other generations it seems.....however, I'm not a whiny little bitch like so many. I want to work hard, I've been with the same company nearly 8 years and I've got a lot of the attitudes of older generations as well about sort of shutting up and getting on with it etc.

I definitely don't join a lot of young voters in automatically hating the Conservatives. Intelligent friends seem to just think, blame the 'elites'. You're a ****ing elite you pleb, you're white, middle class and grew up in the South and have a good job in London. What isn't elite about that in the modern day UK?

I'm not defending the conservatives or saying they're the best thing since sliced bread but when have any ruling party been praised for doing a good job in the run up to an election? When have any opposition been congratulated for having some good manifesto ideas? It's like we're living in some sort of alternative reality where only one party can do wrong and anyone can find stats to prove it. I'm just left aghast at some of the idiocy.

Don't think this rambling really answers any of your questions so I'm really sorry about that but my fingers hurt and I'm 6 minutes late for a meeting.
new to the thread, not much to offer on a political stance. Just trying to educate myself in terms of understanding politics (even if it is just slightly more than I do currently). This particular post enlightened me. It’s great to learn what makes people tick, what aids judgement of decisions such as this. I merely came across to read due to a constant burst of excitement on good old Facebook that the UK will soon be getting free dental care of which they can travel to their appointments using the free bus services (so long as you are under 25) and obviously the free broadband for all. I just can’t get my head around it (hence trying to educate myself more if I am going to vote, it has to mean something).

I May not live in the UK, but I still care for the UK. It quite clearly is not sustainable the way things are going right now, but surely all of the offers of ‘free this, free that’ will bleed the UK further. I won’t even comment on Brexit, I just can’t get my head around it. (I’m not uneducated, I’m highly qualified and intelligent in my line of work) I guess I have been somewhat bubble wrapped in my up bringing that in my household, voting was never a discussion. My parents from what I remember had no view or interest.

Tell me if I’m wrong but Many people seem to be flaunting their opinions that are streamlined to the socialist views I believe Corbyn is to be suggesting in his manifesto....
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 7:58 am
  #205  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I saw that as more of a jibe at people that were the beneficiaries of fom from a wages perspective (bosses), and people that didn't get the shitty end of the fom stick
This - it's easy to find high-falutin reasons to be pro-EU when it's also helping to line ones pocket.
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 9:39 am
  #206  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Clacfart View Post
new to the thread, not much to offer on a political stance. Just trying to educate myself in terms of understanding politics (even if it is just slightly more than I do currently). This particular post enlightened me. It’s great to learn what makes people tick, what aids judgement of decisions such as this. I merely came across to read due to a constant burst of excitement on good old Facebook that the UK will soon be getting free dental care of which they can travel to their appointments using the free bus services (so long as you are under 25) and obviously the free broadband for all. I just can’t get my head around it (hence trying to educate myself more if I am going to vote, it has to mean something).

I May not live in the UK, but I still care for the UK. It quite clearly is not sustainable the way things are going right now, but surely all of the offers of ‘free this, free that’ will bleed the UK further. I won’t even comment on Brexit, I just can’t get my head around it. (I’m not uneducated, I’m highly qualified and intelligent in my line of work) I guess I have been somewhat bubble wrapped in my up bringing that in my household, voting was never a discussion. My parents from what I remember had no view or interest.

Tell me if I’m wrong but Many people seem to be flaunting their opinions that are streamlined to the socialist views I believe Corbyn is to be suggesting in his manifesto....
You're not making much sense. What is it that you want to know?
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 9:43 am
  #207  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
This - it's easy to find high-falutin reasons to be pro-EU when it's also helping to line ones pocket.
Plenty of pro-EU people not getting their pockets lined. Most, in fact. It's the trashy tabloids that have planted and developed this narrative that Remainers are on the make, ripping off the ordinary Brits. Amazing how many people buy into it.
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 10:13 am
  #208  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
This - it's easy to find high-falutin reasons to be pro-EU when it's also helping to line ones pocket.
CB, I'd have thought that Mop-head's announcement at the CBI yesterday would have made you (& your business) stop & think a little. When the term "wealth creation" is used it's not about individuals', or SME's, trying to stay afloat, much less about working people having to resort to food-banks to eat, it's code - a signal, to the UK's obscene domestic and non-dom wealthy elites that things won't change. This orchestrated conflation, between one political party's policies & ideas of fairness, mixed with the sleazy dealings of the City's money laundering services, has you, and the general public confused, over what is equitable and what is, and will, generate a prosperous UK imo.
When an estimated £46 Billion a year of dirty money from the activities of foreign dictators, drug cartels, sex & people traffickers, arms financiers, as well as plain old tax dodgers is allowed to operate in near plain sight, without scrutiny or examination, it's little wonder that it's carefully kept off the MSM and during this GE; - lest it upset the apple-cart. The fact that new EU Regulations from January 2020 would have begun to lift the lid on these activities, had the UK stayed in the EU, is the reason, I suspect, why they'll be enormous smiles of the faces of those receiving their Christmas Bonuses in the City this year
You can lay odds on the fact it won't get a mention tonight
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 12:41 pm
  #209  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Plenty of pro-EU people not getting their pockets lined. Most, in fact. It's the trashy tabloids that have planted and developed this narrative that Remainers are on the make, ripping off the ordinary Brits. Amazing how many people buy into it.
I've not made that suggestion, merely pointed out that it's easy to be piously pro-EU when membership coincidentally also aligns with one's pocket. I.e. the bankers, lawyers, landlords etc who tended to vote remain.
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Old Nov 19th 2019, 2:15 pm
  #210  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

I wonder what new policy Mr Corbyn will announce during tonight's debate?
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