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President Trump

President Trump

Old Apr 19th 2017, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1. We were discussing Trump, as far as Clinton or Nixon whomever I would have the same comments. As (e) the difference is that I believe some of the actions involving his family and/or violate federal ethics rules.

2. If I understand your post you have the opinion that the convention is productive, since I don't start with that assumption or assume necessarily it is a beneficial convention. Certainly many otherwise qualified candidates may not want the public dredging through their private financial matters.

3. Again, what would his tax returns show, and what bearing could that have on tax policies he may propose ? They would be either good policies or not. And how many in the general public would know enough to judge when I read posts of even those in the media claiming his tax returns will show his financial entanglements with this or that country, or that a wealthy person would not take the normal course of using corporate and LLC structures to minimize the tax bite.

Last I almost think this is the sort of media management he does, letting his opponents get tied up complaining about all sorts of things to move attention away form more serious matters.

Maybe because it is convention it would help his opponents feel better to look at his tax returns, I am just guessing but I would assume most of his supporters already have the opinion he stretched every loophole he could since he has had the audacity to even brag about it.
Along with the normal set of strawmen, it's fascinating that you write all that without once mentioning the word "transparency".

Not that it will likely affect Trump, but it's good to see several states moving forward with laws to require tax return transparency as a condition to being on the ballot.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 19th 2017 at 7:23 pm.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 7:34 pm
  #7607  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Along with the normal set of strawmen, it's fascinating that you write all that without once mentioning the word "transparency".

Not that it will likely affect Trump, but it's good to see several states moving forward with laws to require tax return transparency as a condition to being on the ballot.
And just as fascinating you avoid addressing what productive results would come form looking at his tax return. I don't mention transparency because except in the abstract I fail to see the productive benefit involved at looking at any President's tax return. Reading about people going on and on about what they think his tax return would show that it wouldn't, just seems a waste of time so much concern for his tax return- compared to what I believe is the more serious issue of his use of his private businesses as a vendor to the government. I felt the same way about all the talk about the Clinton foundation talk last year, a waste of time.

All the criticism about Obama's family travel expense, why arent same people bringing up the costs being incurred with Trumps use of his own business for state affair?. Hypocrites to be sure.

If it is the law to release tax returns then that of course a different matter. And if some states wish to spend their money and time time on such matters, and have the surplus to do that, that is certainly their right under the American system.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 7:47 pm
  #7608  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
And just as fascinating you avoid addressing what productive results would come form looking at his tax return. I don't mention transparency because except in the abstract I fail to see the productive benefit involved at looking at any President's tax return. Reading about people going on and on about what they think his tax return would show that it wouldn't, just seems a waste of time so much concern for his tax return- compared to what I believe is the more serious issue of his use of his private businesses as a vendor to the government. I felt the same way about all the talk about the Clinton foundation talk last year, a waste of time.
Without seeing it, we don't know what precisely his tax return would show. People only go "on and on" about what they think may be in it because he declines to release them. That is easily solved... You seem "strangely" reluctant to acknowledge that transparency in government might actually be a good thing.

And, again, releasing his tax returns - something every single candidate for president since the 70's has managed to so - is not mutually exclusive with concern about his private businesses. In fact, they are linked:

"Should Trump release his returns, the public would be able to examine his business associations as well as the timing and amounts of his received trust payouts. Without this disclosure, the public will remain in the dark about the financial dealings of the President."

Changes to Trump “Blind Trust” Underscore Need for Tax Return Transparency | Senator Mike McGuire

"There is a chance Trump will list his profits in his next federal financial disclosure, in May 2018, but the form doesn’t require it. The surest way to see what profits Trump is taking would be the release of his tax returns — which hasn’t happened. Income has to be reported to the IRS, whether it comes from a trust or someplace else."

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...out-telling-us

Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 19th 2017 at 7:59 pm.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

More "draining of the swamp":

"Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM -0.66% has applied to the Treasury Department for a waiver from U.S. sanctions on Russia in a bid to resume its joint venture with state oil giant PAO Rosneft, according to people familiar with the matter."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-s...ons-1492620677
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 9:28 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Surely you don't see anything questionable in that
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 11:03 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

A yuuge crowd! Well for the Superbowl-winning Patriots to visit Obama in 2015. Not so much to visit Trump in 2017. Sad.


Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 19th 2017 at 11:15 pm.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 4:53 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
A yuuge crowd! Well for the Superbowl-winning Patriots to visit Obama in 2015. Not so much to visit Trump in 2017. Sad.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017...superJumbo.jpg
However Trump has two balls, Obama only got one.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 8:54 am
  #7613  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
More "draining of the swamp":

"Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM -0.66% has applied to the Treasury Department for a waiver from U.S. sanctions on Russia in a bid to resume its joint venture with state oil giant PAO Rosneft, according to people familiar with the matter."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-s...ons-1492620677
Just saw this a few minutes ago. I am kind of blown away they would dare do this at this time.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 9:16 am
  #7614  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Without seeing it, we don't know what precisely his tax return would show. People only go "on and on" about what they think may be in it because he declines to release them. That is easily solved... You seem "strangely" reluctant to acknowledge that transparency in government might actually be a good thing.

And, again, releasing his tax returns - something every single candidate for president since the 70's has managed to so - is not mutually exclusive with concern about his private businesses. In fact, they are linked:

"Should Trump release his returns, the public would be able to examine his business associations as well as the timing and amounts of his received trust payouts. Without this disclosure, the public will remain in the dark about the financial dealings of the President."

Changes to Trump “Blind Trust” Underscore Need for Tax Return Transparency | Senator Mike McGuire

"There is a chance Trump will list his profits in his next federal financial disclosure, in May 2018, but the form doesn’t require it. The surest way to see what profits Trump is taking would be the release of his tax returns — which hasn’t happened. Income has to be reported to the IRS, whether it comes from a trust or someplace else."

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...out-telling-us
With respect you may not be familiar with US tax forms, if you look up tax forms and required schedules you will quickly see that his tax return will not show all his business associations , nor where his companies get loans from etc etc. As far as income he can legally do what all or most wealthy people do is structure his financial affairs to pay the least personal income tax through the use of corporations and LLC's etc. And what is the difference whether he lost a million or made 100 million. I guess if I could see any productive purpose on the issue I would feel differently. We already know he is aggressive at taking advantage of tax laws, he even brags about it.

I am not familiar with the financial disclosure forms required so I cant comment on those. The blind trust seems a bit of a joke though considering his children's involvement in his businesses. His using his resort for government business seems on the surface to be in violation of the spirit if not the letter of federal ethics guidelines and regulations- and a slap in the face of anyone concerned about the government deficit and those earning low wages.

The fact that other candidates have released their tax returns doesn't mean in itself it is logical or productive to do so. As far as transparency whether that is a positive or not is a complex matter. Surely much goes on at the government level that better general population unaware of just as someone can be a good president notwithstanding their personal life during or in particular prior to being president. Many otherwise qualified people may shy away form government work because of all the disclosure requirements.

What level of transparency is best I don't know.

I would think perhaps release of his FinCen114 forms or IRS correspondence re required amendments to his tax returns might be more relevant to those seeking dirt on Trump than his tax returns.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 10:12 am
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Default Re: President Trump

I go back to what has been said previously, if his tax returns show nothing of value then there's no harm in being transparent about them. He obsessed to the point of paranoia about Obama's birth certificate, he has no concept of rational behaviour and can't see that he's causing unnecessary aggro. Just because he says he won't release them doesn't mean people will say 'oh ok then, no worries'. His behaviour and that of his children regarding their business and financial affairs needs to be sorted to the point that people start accepting he's not financially ****ing the country blind.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 2:08 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
More "draining of the swamp":

"Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM -0.66% has applied to the Treasury Department for a waiver from U.S. sanctions on Russia in a bid to resume its joint venture with state oil giant PAO Rosneft, according to people familiar with the matter."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-s...ons-1492620677
+ One more to add to yours

Trump Donor Wants Pesticide Study Killed - The Daily Beast

Well they paid there money , surely there entitled to just one simple request , bollocks to Planet Earth ,we have to keep our profits up
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Just saw this a few minutes ago. I am kind of blown away they would dare do this at this time.
You're the only one, everyone else knew it wouldn't be long.
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 3:17 pm
  #7618  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
time.
All the criticism about Obama's family travel expense, why arent same people bringing up the costs being incurred with Trumps use of his own business for state affair?. Hypocrites to be sure.
.
Off course there hypocrites , sadly its a fairly common disease amongst all political classes , but in this case the spineless core off the GOP have taken it to the limit !
Speaker Paul Ryan on several occasions has defended "Prat Face" over this & the rest off the tosser's are afraid to upset the guy who holds the key to the "trough" because one day they hope they might be invited to join the feast .
At it is now , the Goal Post's have been moved , so any body can fill there boots so to say !
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 3:24 pm
  #7619  
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Default Re: President Trump

Yet another promise he failed to keep

Report: Trump Campaign Behind on Legal Fees - The Daily Beast

You could not make this up ,even if you wanted too
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Old Apr 20th 2017, 4:15 pm
  #7620  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
More "draining of the swamp":

"Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM -0.66% has applied to the Treasury Department for a waiver from U.S. sanctions on Russia in a bid to resume its joint venture with state oil giant PAO Rosneft, according to people familiar with the matter."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-s...ons-1492620677
This has just arrived, so it now seems they where already thinking off requesting this concession before he was sworn in.

We Now Know Who Funded Trump's Inauguration
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