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President Biden

President Biden

Old Jul 21st 2021, 8:56 pm
  #2866  
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Default Re: President Biden

I've been watching some shows on History on demand about how the big food companies we know today came to be, but anyhow last night I watched the episode that covered the Nathans Hot Dogs and White Castle Burgers.

Both in part finding their success by offering a cheap food option to the working class. Nathan's Hot Dog founder for example, charged 5 cents for one where his former employer down the street, charged 10 cents, plus back then both hot dogs and hamburgers were largely seen as the poor's food, not the commonplace foods they are today. (Nathan the man behind the brand that carries his name, started the company with his wife in 1916ish with $300 their life savings, they had to sell 6,000 hot dogs to make that back, unsure how long it took them to do, but they very clearly did manage to make their investment back and then some.)

But anyhow the show describes in part how the working class worked all day, had little time to make food, and little money, and needed cheap and fast places to eat.

So really when people of Trump's age say make America great again, seems that really just applies to the boomer era, because pre-boomer and post boomer era, America hasn't been all that great for the working class, sure the working class has more $$ today, but everything has also risen exponentially in price, especially rents and housing.

The show is also a good reminder that these big mega brands we know today, became what they are today largely due to just a couple people, hell even Wal-Mart started as a mom and pop store.





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Old Jul 21st 2021, 9:38 pm
  #2867  
 
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I've been watching some shows on History on demand about how the big food companies we know today came to be, but anyhow last night I watched the episode that covered the Nathans Hot Dogs and White Castle Burgers.

Both in part finding their success by offering a cheap food option to the working class. Nathan's Hot Dog founder for example, charged 5 cents for one where his former employer down the street, charged 10 cents, plus back then both hot dogs and hamburgers were largely seen as the poor's food, not the commonplace foods they are today. (Nathan the man behind the brand that carries his name, started the company with his wife in 1916ish with $300 their life savings, they had to sell 6,000 hot dogs to make that back, unsure how long it took them to do, but they very clearly did manage to make their investment back and then some.)

But anyhow the show describes in part how the working class worked all day, had little time to make food, and little money, and needed cheap and fast places to eat.

So really when people of Trump's age say make America great again, seems that really just applies to the boomer era, because pre-boomer and post boomer era, America hasn't been all that great for the working class, sure the working class has more $$ today, but everything has also risen exponentially in price, especially rents and housing.

The show is also a good reminder that these big mega brands we know today, became what they are today largely due to just a couple people, hell even Wal-Mart started as a mom and pop store.

I don't disagree with you at all, but I do think that the "greatness" implied in the Trumpy stuff is largely about an idea, or the national myth. Clearly there was a post-war economic boom (with boomers and their parents both benefitting) but that was of course never universal across American society. National myths are extremely powerful things, and not always for the good. One is that the US is in some undefined way more "free" than any other country and an idealised version of its own founding and history. The UK harbours myths about "fair play" and some sort of inherent "greatness" (empire hangover) and an idealised version of its own history as well. If you look at the lyrics of Land of Hope and Glory (British nationalist and "patriotic" song), you will see national myth in all its force. I think it has finally lost some strength in more recent years, but it hasn't gone. It could also just as well serve for the US.

Land of hope and glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
Who are born of thee
Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set
God who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier
God who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier yet


Last edited by Lion in Winter; Jul 21st 2021 at 9:40 pm. Reason: Too much hope and glory
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 4:41 am
  #2868  
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Default Re: President Biden

Overall US isn't more free really than any other western country, biggest difference say between US and Canada, is the 1st Amendment in the US gives more broad protection over free speech than we have in Canada but its not like we are being repressed, and crossing the border your suddenly more free, for most people its basically the same ole same ole either side.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 2:25 pm
  #2869  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Overall US isn't more free really than any other western country, biggest difference say between US and Canada, is the 1st Amendment in the US gives more broad protection over free speech than we have in Canada but its not like we are being repressed, and crossing the border your suddenly more free, for most people its basically the same ole same ole either side.
US people are more free not to participate in health-care than citizens and residents of advanced countries.

”I would prefer not to.” Not by accident is Bartleby, the Scrivener an iconic American character - not German, or British, or Canadian.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 3:37 pm
  #2870  
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Default Re: President Biden

Well Joe is getting slammed for not opening the land border to fully vaccinated Canadians even though fully vaccinated US citizens & PR's can enter Canada from 9 August. There again seeing as there seems to be an uptick in cases in every state then perhaps he feels like he is protecting Canadians.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 3:39 pm
  #2871  
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Default Re: President Biden

This isn't the 1900s anymore. Things change. Societies evolve. Over the long term, usually for the better.

​​​​​​But to romanticise a return to a less evolved past is not only counterproductive, but in the long run, futile. We will evolve no matter what rosy remembrance of past life we choose to adopt.

"Freedom". The US was at one time the icon of that. But that was when most of the world was poor and divided and oppressed. Before it evolved.

Now much, much more of the world is every bit as "free" as the US. It's no longer unique in that respect. With or without public healthcare. Although much of its politics still depends on that distinction. Even if obsolete.

But that's just a product of looking backwards. The UK is currently experiencing much the same quandary.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 3:58 pm
  #2872  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
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"Freedom". The US was at one time the icon of that. But that was when most of the world was poor and divided and oppressed. Before it evolved.
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You might need to be a little more specific about when, and whose freedom, but what I think you are referring to is a good example of the power of propoganda, or perhaps better expressed as the power of myth. The ability of a segment of a society to create a myth of themselves, project it as a national myth and have much of the World accept the myth as truth.
I am hoping, the recent book "White Freedom: The Racial History of an Idea" by Tyler Stovall, will illuminate this.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 4:30 pm
  #2873  
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Default Re: President Biden

Let's see. 1600's. England was ruled by an oppressive monarchy. Many of it's inhabitants left to seek "freedom" from that. They landed in Massachusetts and started "colonising". At that time, under English rule, but that changed in 1776, when the " United States" declared independence from the crown.

meanwhile, most of Europe was poor, ruled by oppressiive monarchies and various tyrant rulers. Most of Asia as well. You may be familiar with the line "give us your tired, your poor".. That was an incredibly attractive call to the oppressed nations of the world.

And unsurprisingly, they came. In droves. To seek "freedom" in the new world. Over time, the US became increasingly powerful. And ultimately, became the icon of "freedom". And it had a mission to spread that same freedom globally. And it did. And it was disruptive. (Evolutionary, IMO).

Elsewhere, change was in the wings. Many were terrified of it. There were wars, much bloodshed, poverty, tragedy... Again, America secured its place as the icon of "freedom". And they came. And came. From all over the world, making the US more and more powerful. It fought wars for " Freedom". It initiated foreign policy and diplomatic missions to encourage it worldwide. It was an icon.

In the end, after all the fear, all the fighting, oppressive rulers, from Asia through Europe were toppled, or adopted democratic freedoms. Monarchies sidelined. Rule of law.. Equality, fairness.. In concept, at least.

Today, much of the world has adopted that basic ideology. Some more than others, but from Asia through Europe, from South America to India ro the subcontinent, with few exceptions, most live on those basic principles. Even China although a dictatorship in its own right, has wisely adopted many of those basic principles, which now make it one of the fastest improving nations on the planet. Although for its dictatorship, is a long, long way from the same "freedom" That most of the rest of the world enjoys.

So, the US is no longer unique in that respect. Politically, It needs to believe it is, but at a macro view, its not so unique anymore.

In fact, its modern day attacks on its own principled democratic roots show that it's becoming rather unsure of itself, resorting to a fantasy version of past "freedom" to justify it. Thankfully, it didn't go far. So far.

But the UK is still grappling with it. Fortunately, it hasn't the power or influence of the US, so its problems are far less of a threat to the global order. It will eventually sort itself out, with little consequence to everybody else.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 4:43 pm
  #2874  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
"give us your tired, your poor".. That was an incredibly attractive call to the oppressed nations of the world.
.
We still have to ask "whose freedom" as the oppressed from at least Britain, were fleeing from a country that forbid slavery within its borders to many colonies and later States that allowed it. Mythology is very much a plastic art.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

The ideas of the Enlightenment, have had very powerful and widespread impact upon the World.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
We still have to ask "whose freedom" as the oppressed from at least Britain, were fleeing from a country that forbid slavery within its borders to many colonies and later States that allowed it. Mythology is very much a plastic art.
oh, I'm not defending the us. Only pointing out that today, it's really not uniquely "free". But virtually every political act has some reference to America's unique "freedom", despite the obsolescence of it. It's backward looking. And that's dangerous. Especially considering the power and influence it wields.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 6:21 pm
  #2877  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Let's see. 1600's. England was ruled by an oppressive monarchy. Many of it's inhabitants left to seek "freedom" from that. They landed in Massachusetts and started "colonising". At that time, under English rule, but that changed in 1776, when the " United States" declared independence from the crown.
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Point to a time, 1600 - 2021, when America was IN FACT more free, and less oppressive, than England or the United Kingdom. Specifically, to say that in the 17th century, England was ruled by an “oppressive monarchy” is obviously a gross oversimplification (just because there were several different regimes, and several revolutions, in seventeenth century England.) America was of course involved in those revolutions - puritans, the Commonwealth, etc.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 6:32 pm
  #2878  
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Default Re: President Biden

Edmund Morgan in his book "American Slavery, American Freedom" makes the claim that (at least for Virginia) freedom was prized so highly (by the 60%) because its opposite was so evident and clear and near at hand, as seen by the condition of the 40%. Ideals are cherished when they are ephemeral or in an economic analogy, short in supply.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 6:35 pm
  #2879  
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Default Re: President Biden

Just a minor anecdote about freedom in England vs. America. My wife & I got married in London in 1976. She was amazed that we didn’t need to get blood tests in order to get a marriage license. Yeah, in England, so long as you’re not already married (& that, you self-certify,) you can get married. In America at that time, there was the eugenics & miscegenation to worry about.
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Old Jul 22nd 2021, 6:45 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Negative and positive freedom. Freedom from, and freedom to. Anyone can become President here, no laws against it, (citizenship qualifications etc notwithstanding) but in fact, anyone can't.
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