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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Sep 10th 2018, 3:51 pm
  #1351  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
N

Have you ever looked up the words forum and debate in a dictionary.
You seem to have forgotten that on here you are a nobody, equal in lack of ststus and importance to the rest of us.
There are no employees on here too frightened or ambitious to disagree with you.
That must have come a quite a shock to you..
Your views are worth no more or no less than anyone else's...
I'm merely pointing-out that you guys like to make up a lot of stuff.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 4:03 pm
  #1352  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I'm merely pointing-out that you guys like to make up a lot of stuff.
No we just disagree with your view and post counter arguments..
Just because you think you are right, does not mean you are.
.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 4:37 pm
  #1353  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
No we just disagree with your view and post counter arguments..
Just because you think you are right, does not mean you are.
.
No, you make up stuff, you say "Cape says XYZ" or "Cape wants ABC" when there is no evidence to support that and I've never said it or implied it.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 5:20 pm
  #1354  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
No, you make up stuff, you say "Cape says XYZ" or "Cape wants ABC" when there is no evidence to support that and I've never said it or implied it.
Yes and pigs might fly.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 5:51 pm
  #1355  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
No, you make up stuff, you say "Cape says XYZ" or "Cape wants ABC" when there is no evidence to support that and I've never said it or implied it.
You know, I seem to recall you saying "you never said that", followed by someone posting a parade of quotes of your posts saying exactly that which you deny. Then you just change the subject, or toss some other outrageous remark intended to trigger an argument about something else.

Is your last name "Trump" by any chance?
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 6:10 pm
  #1356  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Why am I keen on that? Yet more hyperbole.
I don't know why you're keen on the idea but you're saying that anti-immigrant parties in the EU are mainstream rather than fringe. Just taking one of the countries you mentioned, Sweden has voted 80-something percent against the anti-immigrant party. Not exactly centre-stage. You also mentioned "political machinations" excluding such parties from governing, which appears to go a bit further still to me especially as some such parties have actually been drawn in to governments for political expediency rather than in recognition of the fact that they've got x share of the vote or that there is no other possible alternative (in much the same way as the DUP are being used as a prop for the Conservatives in the UK, for example).

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Where have I said they don't have immigration on the same scale as the UK?
Pretty certain you have said that the UK has had population increase driven solely by immigration which the other member states haven't. You've certainly made that point a number of times about Germany (another on your list of countries where anti-immigrant politics is mainstream) and I thought had extended it to other member states of the EU when talking about intra-EU migration but I'm not going to trawl through all your posts to locate it now.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 6:21 pm
  #1357  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
It does NOT change the fact that currently Labour is not a viable electable alternative to the Tories.
Corbyn revels in opposition whereas Blair and others before him wanted to govern..
We are doomed to the Tories remaining in power ..
We are while there are people like you around, who refuse to be objective about the party's proposals and instead swallow the line that it's unacceptably radical, when in fact it's all well within the bounds of what the public say they want most.

However, the re-founding job that's been done so far is nothing short of miraculous given the powerful opposition to it and in favour of maintaining the "There is no alternative" politics of the past. The best is yet to come.

I hope you have a very large chin - you're going to need it to collect all the egg that'll be running onto it after your constant pronouncements re electability. What are the polls currently showing, by the way?
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 6:38 pm
  #1358  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
We are while there are people like you around, who refuse to be objective about the party's proposals and instead swallow the line that it's unacceptably radical, when in fact it's all well within the bounds of what the public say they want most.

However, the re-founding job that's been done so far is nothing short of miraculous given the powerful opposition to it and in favour of maintaining the "There is no alternative" politics of the past. The best is yet to come.

I hope you have a very large chin - you're going to need it to collect all the egg that'll be running onto it after your constant pronouncements re electability. What are the polls currently showing, by the way?

Remind us how well did Labour do in the recent local council elections.
How well are they doing in the polls., You gov, Tories ahead of labour.
Given the mess the Tories are in Labour should be a shoe in but under Corbyn far from it,
ThevTUC is now pushing him to take on the Tories over Brexit.
The UK political gossip is now about the emergence of a centre left grouping, not the return to the unelectable Labour of the late 70s and 80s.typified by Corbyn and McDonald..
..

Last edited by EMR; Sep 10th 2018 at 6:42 pm.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 6:49 pm
  #1359  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I don't know why you're keen on the idea but you're saying that anti-immigrant parties in the EU are mainstream rather than fringe. Just taking one of the countries you mentioned, Sweden has voted 80-something percent against the anti-immigrant party. Not exactly centre-stage. You also mentioned "political machinations" excluding such parties from governing, which appears to go a bit further still to me especially as some such parties have actually been drawn in to governments for political expediency rather than in recognition of the fact that they've got x share of the vote or that there is no other possible alternative (in much the same way as the DUP are being used as a prop for the Conservatives in the UK, for example).

[color=#333333]
Pretty certain you have said that the UK has had population increase driven solely by immigration which the other member states haven't. You've certainly made that point a number of times about Germany (another on your list of countries where anti-immigrant politics is mainstream) and I thought had extended it to other member states of the EU when talking about intra-EU migration but I'm not going to trawl through all your posts to locate it now.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 7:01 pm
  #1360  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I don't know why you're keen on the idea but you're saying that anti-immigrant parties in the EU are mainstream rather than fringe. Just taking one of the countries you mentioned, Sweden has voted 80-something percent against the anti-immigrant party. Not exactly centre-stage. You also mentioned "political machinations" excluding such parties from governing, which appears to go a bit further still to me especially as some such parties have actually been drawn in to governments for political expediency rather than in recognition of the fact that they've got x share of the vote or that there is no other possible alternative (in much the same way as the DUP are being used as a prop for the Conservatives in the UK, for example).
[color=#333333]
Pretty certain you have said that the UK has had population increase driven solely by immigration which the other member states haven't. You've certainly made that point a number of times about Germany (another on your list of countries where anti-immigrant politics is mainstream) and I thought had extended it to other member states of the EU when talking about intra-EU migration but I'm not going to trawl through all your posts to locate it now.
Troubled times in Sweden - but no real surprise given that nation's historical bedsharing with the Nazis.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 7:25 pm
  #1361  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
Troubled times in Sweden ...
I think this is blown out of proportion somewhat. I've been following the Guardian with its reports of the rise of the far right in Europe and mentioning elections in Finland, Norway, Italy and maybe Denmark and the winners in the elections have routinely formed their governments previously.

Now we have "shocking" developments in Sweden where the winners are the same party that won for the last 100 years and while they don't have a majority, it appears that's been the same since 1968.

As for the growth of the far right Sweden Democrats, they've made small gains each time (so that might be a worry) but they were expected to win 16 to 27% (I think) and they barely got the minimum of that with 17%.

Without wishing to be complacent, they might actually be disappointed.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 8:45 pm
  #1362  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
You know, I seem to recall you saying "you never said that", followed by someone posting a parade of quotes of your posts saying exactly that which you deny. Then you just change the subject, or toss some other outrageous remark intended to trigger an argument about something else.

Is your last name "Trump" by any chance?
You recall wrongly.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 8:52 pm
  #1363  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Remind us how well did Labour do in the recent local council elections.
How well are they doing in the polls., You gov, Tories ahead of labour.
Given the mess the Tories are in Labour should be a shoe in but under Corbyn far from it,
ThevTUC is now pushing him to take on the Tories over Brexit.
The UK political gossip is now about the emergence of a centre left grouping, not the return to the unelectable Labour of the late 70s and 80s.typified by Corbyn and McDonald..
..
The current Labour Party is centre left in policy, leaning mildly towards social democracy. Forget the talk of extreme left, a return to decades past, Venezuela, etc, etc - the current movement is about regeneration of a genuine alternative to the worst excesses of the extreme centre.

You carry on dreaming about the comeback of the disastrous Blair policies. That lot can f**k right off into their own party that offers up more of the same if they wish and you're more than welcome to waste your vote on them if they field a candidate in your constituency but they don't belong in this Labour and that's the one that's here to stay.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 8:53 pm
  #1364  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I think this is blown out of proportion somewhat. I've been following the Guardian with its reports of the rise of the far right in Europe and mentioning elections in Finland, Norway, Italy and maybe Denmark and the winners in the elections have routinely formed their governments previously.

Now we have "shocking" developments in Sweden where the winners are the same party that won for the last 100 years and while they don't have a majority, it appears that's been the same since 1968.

As for the growth of the far right Sweden Democrats, they've made small gains each time (so that might be a worry) but they were expected to win 16 to 27% (I think) and they barely got the minimum of that with 17%.

Without wishing to be complacent, they might actually be disappointed.
Absolutely correct.
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Old Sep 10th 2018, 9:08 pm
  #1365  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I don't know why you're keen on the idea but you're saying that anti-immigrant parties in the EU are mainstream rather than fringe. Just taking one of the countries you mentioned, Sweden has voted 80-something percent against the anti-immigrant party. Not exactly centre-stage. You also mentioned "political machinations" excluding such parties from governing, which appears to go a bit further still to me especially as some such parties have actually been drawn in to governments for political expediency rather than in recognition of the fact that they've got x share of the vote or that there is no other possible alternative (in much the same way as the DUP are being used as a prop for the Conservatives in the UK, for example).
Mentioning the rise of anti-migration political parties in other EU countries as a balance to the "the British are xenophobes" comment from Ami etc does not lead to me being "very keen on the idea of a dramatic rise in anti-immigrant parties throughout the EU" - a classic strawman. If you mentioned that there were Nazi's in Germany would that make you "very keen on the idea of a dramatic rise of Nazi parties"? Talking about something doesn't mean you are "very keen on the idea of a dramatic rise" of it.

They are mainstream because they are not 2% parties like the UK Greens etc, but 10, 20, 30% parties or in the case of Italy, Hungary, Austria the parties in-charge. Political machinations such as the left and right getting together to fight-off the Front Nacional in France each time.

Pretty certain you have said that the UK has had population increase driven solely by immigration which the other member states haven't. You've certainly made that point a number of times about Germany (another on your list of countries where anti-immigrant politics is mainstream) and I thought had extended it to other member states of the EU when talking about intra-EU migration but I'm not going to trawl through all your posts to locate it now.
I have never said the UK population was driven solely by immigration - you just make these things up and spout them to discredit those who don't agree with you. I was going to give you an example back, but DLD will wet his panties again and start getting his mod mates over.

The UK population increase over the past 15-odd years was around 75% driven by immigration (the other 25% being increased longevity). I have mentioned Germany in the past because others like to say "well, Germany has a higher number of migrants and they don't seem to have a problem" and I am making the point that Germany's high level of immigration only serves to keep its population static at 80M, whereas the UK's population has surged by several million over the past 15-20 years, therefore Germany might not be suffering some of the negatives of ramped accommodation costs and suppressed wages. Although they do seem to have a few fires in immigrant housing locations.
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